Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#581

Post by MichaelZuo » Tue, Mar 18, 2025, 10:26 PM UTC

bmicraft wrote: post #517

threeseed wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> any process running under your user can access You will need to grant that app explicit Full Disk Access permissions in order for it to access that folder.

Okay then let me grant "Full Notification Access permissions" on iPhone and we're good.

None of this comment chain makes sense… how is this relevant when Apple operates across hundreds of jurisdictions?

Most of which don’t allow users to waive rights based on a prompt.

So Apple would still have liability anyways for grandma getting scammed, regardless of how expertly worded the prompts are.

Which entails extra customer service costs, handling lawsuits, etc… that someone has to pay for.

Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#582

Post by 9rx » Tue, Mar 18, 2025, 10:26 PM UTC

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #519

9rx wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless regulation is the problem[1], you need the will of the people[2] to see regulation come into force. But if the people had the will, they could just see it through already. No need for regulation. [1] Which it is in the case of computing. Intellectual property law makes direct competition against the law. [2] Assuming a democracy.

The idea that if the people had the will they would see it through assumes efficient markets with negligible startup costs and informed and rational consumers, which is not the way the real world works. Microsoft - a multi-trillion dollar company, number 2 in the world by market cap, second to AAPL and several positions above Google - tried really hard for several years to wedge their way into the mobile phone OS gam…

> The idea that if the people had the will they would see it through assumes efficient markets with negligible startup costs and informed and rational consumers, which is not the way the real world works.

The idea is that if the will of the people is there, they can threaten companies like Apple (or whatever business) to shape up to their expectations or see sales come to an end. Which is also all the government is going to do. After all, (democratic) government and the people are the exact same thing. There is no magic. But if the will isn't there...

> tried really hard for several years to wedge their way into the mobile phone OS game with Windows Phone

They never tried building an iPhone clone, which should have had no trouble finding a market fit. They couldn't do that because regulation doesn't allow it, but without that regulation there is no go reason why they wouldn't have been able to become a viable competitor.

Microsoft's attempt at a phone, and even Android devices for that matter, only compete with the iPhone in the same way Soylent Green competes with hamburgers. It kind of ticks the same boxes if you look at it through a narrow enough lens, but that is not true competition.

Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#583

Post by tpholland » Tue, Mar 18, 2025, 10:27 PM UTC

lynx97 wrote: post #499

mistercheph wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You never needed speeds in excess of usb 2.0? LOL, this is such old hat, guys in IBM t-shirts telling me how nobody ever needed more than 64K, and why go third party with your treasured computation when you can get the best, the infallible, the International Business Machine?

In the 15 years that I use iPhones now, I never needed the USB port for any data transfer except for one time when I used an external sound card to record things. Maybe I am a simpleton when it comes to mobile. I guess I deserve being LOLed at.

Don't worry, that one has the energy of the guy that was fired for buying IBM

Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#584

Post by _emacsomancer_ » Tue, Mar 18, 2025, 10:28 PM UTC

Nifty3929 wrote: post #268

I think people forget that Apple is not making devices for the Hackernews community. They are making devices for people that just want something that works pretty well and has reasonable security - even to the extent of protecting them from themselves. They have other things to do with their time than learn about security vulnerabilities and how to avoid them. They want to just click 'yes' on every popup and expect t…

People who don't read Hacker News occasionally want nice things too, and don't necessarily deserve corporations infantalising them.

Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#585

Post by diggan » Tue, Mar 18, 2025, 10:29 PM UTC

kevincox wrote: post #424

snailmailman wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m pretty sure this rule is only there to stop the hundreds of “flashlight” apps that used to exist. (Although, they appear to still exist) There isn’t tons of innovation or competition in “flashlight app” other than adding advertisements. There used to be a bunch of them that would only get popular out of necessity. The ones I’m seeing now in the App Store do seem to have non-default behaviors like “strobe light” a…

So what? Why not let there be flashlight apps if users find them useful? Apple doesn't have to recommend them in the app store and can sort them to the bottom of search results page. But why can't the exist. If people don't want them they will choose not to install them.

> But why can't the exist.

I'm fairly sure "Only high quality apps should be available to users" was said more than once when the Apple AppStore first launched (together with the second or third iPhone I think?). Apple isn't really into the whole "users can choose what's best" thing, which once you understand this, a lot of their choices become understandable (albeit shitty none the less).

Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#586

Post by that_guy_iain » Tue, Mar 18, 2025, 10:29 PM UTC

frollogaston wrote: post #344

that_guy_iain wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple are making devices for people who want things that look pretty. Functionality is generally not the major concern. Think about it. They are late with most new tech as they will just wait until it becomes cheaper, why? Because they already know it's not a deal breaker. They removed a bunch of fundamental and heavily used ports from the Macbook for years. Because they knew people would just work around it and buy…

I'm annoyed about the dongles, but that's about it. Macs work better.

It all depends on what you're doing. For many on here, Macs are technically worse because they use docker and that means instead of just running docker and using the container functionality in the Linux kernel they have to virtualise a Linux VM to run docker in. If you're gaming it's not as good as Windows. Macs are ok, they do the job and in some areas they are better. But really, for most it doesn't matter, it's all about brand.

Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#587

Post by _emacsomancer_ » Tue, Mar 18, 2025, 10:30 PM UTC

queuebert wrote: post #331

Nifty3929 wrote: post #268

I think people forget that Apple is not making devices for the Hackernews community. They are making devices for people that just want something that works pretty well and has reasonable security - even to the extent of protecting them from themselves. They have other things to do with their time than learn about security vulnerabilities and how to avoid them. They want to just click 'yes' on every popup and expect t…

This is a false dichotomy. You can build a system that is secure by default but allows you to opt out with sufficient technical knowledge.

Or also just have a corporation with enough technical knowledge themselves to work out security.... I suppose they figure it's not in their business interests though.

Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#588

Post by echelon » Tue, Mar 18, 2025, 10:32 PM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #259

echelon wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ONLY answer is antitrust action from every major government. The trillion dollar companies are so massive that they are impinging upon every category of business that touches them. And they're so massive that their sinnew and tendrils touch everything under the sun. Mobile computing is de-facto owned by two companies. It's owned, tightly controlled like an authoritarian government, and heavily taxed. Compared wit…

> Mobile computing is de-facto owned by two companies. Still beats the Windows era when a single company owned desktop computing (which was the only type of computing for consumers). > We've wound up with Standard Oil 2.0 Skipped right over Microsoft! > We must break up these companies. With Microsoft it was a complex consent decree. (The initial ruling to break up the company was overturned.)

Microsoft of that era is a tiny bug compared to the trillion dollar giants of today.

You could install whatever you wanted on Windows. Any software, any browser. Microsoft was incredibly open with both software and hardware compatibility.

You didn't have to use IIS or C# or Microsoft technology to develop software. You could develop and deploy PHP, Apache, Perl, C, anything. And about that time, Linux servers and distribution were massively growing in popularity. There were so many options.

It was even easy to pirate Windows and other software if you really wanted to. Basically, it was a complete Wild West with lots of latitude and room to navigate for everyone. Microsoft really only pursued enterprise contracts.

And the market back then was incredibly small. The number of desktop broadband and dialup users pales in comparison to the total number of smartphone users we have today.

The situation today is wholly different on every level. Two companies own how society stays connected, how it conducts commerce, and how it shares information. It's gross how much power they have. And how they choose to enforce it and tax it.

Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#589

Post by bhelkey » Tue, Mar 18, 2025, 10:37 PM UTC

manmal wrote: post #435

bhelkey wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple creates significant roadblocks for 3rd party accessories. Android does not. Is it really surprising that developers who love building third party accessories would choose Android?

They chose to make an iOS app though, and, it seems to be a second class citizen.

The US Department of Justice is currently suing Apple for this exact reason [1].

They claim that Apple imposes restrictions on every non-Apple watch. Users then prefer the Apple Watch not because Apple made it better but because Apple made all other watches worse.

If you are frustrated that Pebble takes longer to develop around artificial restrictions, I would direct those frustrations at the company creating the restrictions not at Pebble.

[1] https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/justice-department-s...

Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#590

Post by DecentShoes » Tue, Mar 18, 2025, 10:38 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #538

rednafi wrote: post #139

There's nothing new here. From AirDrop to AirPods, Apple's MO is to lock you into their ecosystem and be as belligerent as possible toward any non-Apple gizmo. Couple that with social and network effects, and you have a perfect formula for monopolizing a market without continuously improving the tech.

> and you have a perfect formula for monopolizing a market without continuously improving the tech. ...but the Apple ecosystem has the best tech. M chips, AirPods Pro, Apple Watch, iPad, Pencil, I mean the tech is great . Apple isn't monopolizing anything. They're competing like hell and winning because their tech is best. The real question is why the Android and Microsoft ecosystems don't do better at improving thei…

Apple is monopolizing lots of things. You aren't allowed to make software for the iPhone without distributing exclusively thru the App Store. This whole post is about how they restrict third party watches.