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The Demoralization is just Beginning

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Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#581

Post by Finnucane »

throwawaythekey wrote: post #266
roenxi wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wealth generation has been growing exponentially for 200, 300 years. Maybe longer. Noting that people in the past had less wealth than today is hardly a point. Anything but the most jaw-droppingly stupid economic systems would have todays population being very wealthy compared to those of yesteryear. Even the experiments in authoritarianism and communism have managed that although they killed a lot of people along th…

I agree with the thrust of your argument but the idea that you need to have a really really large pile of gold sitting in a warehouse to fix it seems silly to me. Can't they just not print so much?

That was more or less what Paul Volcker did in the early 1980s. Banks were smaller and more closely regulated, so he was able to put some constraint on the money supply, and raised interest rates. And it worked, it crushed inflation, but it was a very bitter pill--a hard recession followed. Volcker got yelled at by Congress, a lot. In the long run, he was vindicated--inflation remained fairly low until the pandemic.

But the idea that you should manage your economy according to how much of some metal you can dig out of the ground is ridiculous.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#582

Post by FergusArgyll »

jsiepkes wrote: post #568
FergusArgyll wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A man has been jailed today after pleading guilty to posting grossly offensive messages on social media." - The Crown Prosecution Service https://www.cps.gov.uk/north-west/news/man-jailed-offensive-...

This wasn't someone posting just a meme online or anything. The guy was posting racist shit during civil unrest [1]. Literally throwing oil on a fire. Yeah, you are going to get prosecuted for that. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gdww5lx2vo

"In those wretched Countries where a Man cannot call his Tongue his own, he can scarce call any Thing else his own. Whoever would overthrow the Liberty of a Nation, must begin by subduing the Freeness of Speech; a Thing terrible to Publick Traytors."

- Benjamin Franklin

This is why we fought a war to be separate from your "wretched" country. You're justifying jail time for racist speech!

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#584

Post by matwood »

foven wrote: post #380
tomhoward wrote: post #355

There's an implicit assumption in the article and the comments here that "brain drain the world" is a free lunch. But does anyone think through to the end-game of that? That when you drain the most smart/productive people away from every other country, all those countries become less wealthy and more dysfunctional, leading to societal decline, poverty, resentment, radicalisation, war, etc? Aside from anything else, t…

More to the point, when you write an article like this foretelling the doom of the american economy, why would you think you are able to brain drain any country? What stops the countries you are trying to drain from offering better incentives to stay?

> What stops the countries you are trying to drain from offering better incentives to stay?

Nothing! And that is sort of the point. If the US can provide freedom, rule of law, education, good salary, etc... and the other countries do the same to keep the best at home that's a win for everyone.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#585

Post by wahnfrieden »

dudefeliciano wrote: post #567
wahnfrieden wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German police raid homes of activists for making anti-Israel social media posts https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-police-raid-prop... (Trump also just tweeted that activists will be imprisoned)

I find it interesting that the first replies i got were about racists, nazi sympathizers, afd people and so on (who it turns out never got jailed, but fined, and not for "posting a meme" but for going against well known laws against inciting violence). Yours is the only reply (yet) that talks about Palestine, that I find much more interesting in this context. It should be noted that pro palestinian protesters have be…

Both US and Germany are rapidly criminalizing vocal support for Palestine and criticism of Israel. Canada is, too - they've escalated a protest crime (painting a message against IDF recruitment on private property... the owner of a large bookstore chain here pays Canadians to go join the IDF) into a hate crime by calling it antisemitic so they can prosecute it more harshly.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#586

Post by 6510 »

Finnucane wrote: post #581
throwawaythekey wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the thrust of your argument but the idea that you need to have a really really large pile of gold sitting in a warehouse to fix it seems silly to me. Can't they just not print so much?

That was more or less what Paul Volcker did in the early 1980s. Banks were smaller and more closely regulated, so he was able to put some constraint on the money supply, and raised interest rates. And it worked, it crushed inflation, but it was a very bitter pill--a hard recession followed. Volcker got yelled at by Congress, a lot. In the long run, he was vindicated--inflation remained fairly low until the pandemic.…

Have to find a way to measure long term quality of life. Digging in the ground should be part of it. If you can forge quality long term mutually beneficial relationships with others who agree to do the digging for you it might score more points than digging yourself.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#587

Post by dudefeliciano »

FergusArgyll wrote: post #582
jsiepkes wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't someone posting just a meme online or anything. The guy was posting racist shit during civil unrest [1]. Literally throwing oil on a fire. Yeah, you are going to get prosecuted for that. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gdww5lx2vo

"In those wretched Countries where a Man cannot call his Tongue his own, he can scarce call any Thing else his own. Whoever would overthrow the Liberty of a Nation, must begin by subduing the Freeness of Speech; a Thing terrible to Publick Traytors." - Benjamin Franklin This is why we fought a war to be separate from your "wretched" country. You're justifying jail time for racist speech!

> he can scarce call any Thing else his own

Ironic coming from a future slave owner. He did become an abolitionist, after travelling to France and England and being exposed to some, for Americans, pretty radical ideas.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#588

Post by ShellfishMeme »

sdsd wrote: post #521
dudefeliciano wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is there any reliable source for that "going to jail in europe for posting memes"? I keep seeing this argument in online arguments, but can not find a credible source

I suppose this doesn't remotely qualify as "memes", but Mr. Bond went to prison for ten years in Germany for making racist rap songs.

It was Austria, and I think it's pretty telling that when free speech limitations come up in these kind of threads, it's always neo-Nazi stuff.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#589

Post by xyst »

ryandamm wrote: post #11

I prefer my economic takes from economists, or people who actually study these things. -there is more to an economy than manufacturing. Using manufacturing metrics to rate an economy is like scoring a soccer game based on how far your players run: in some contexts correlated with “winning” but in others it’s not. -gold is not a good currency or basis for monetary policy. -these ideas only sound self consistent withou…

People like Krugman are one of the reasons USA is in a hot mess and wealth has concentrated into a select few.

Neoclassical economists have been selling themselves as “scientists” (think physicists) for decades and their theories are cited as reasons for economic policies in the USA.

One of these days I’ll write a post on it. But one of the areas they get wrong repeatedly is on the minimum wage.

Neoclassical economists would argue that increasing minimum wage ultimately hurts the people it’s trying to help. For example, by increasing minimum wage you would see a decrease in businesses and/or number of jobs available. In neoclassical theory and “Econ 101”, they would chalk it up to supply and demand.

However, this has been disproven in regions or states where the minimum wage has well exceeded the federal minimum wage. Take Seattle, WA for example where min wage is ~$20/hr. Local restaurant industry didn’t collapse. Region itself didn’t collapse. Sure jobs or businesses closed (Subway franchises, lol), but were eventually replaced by ones that could compete. Likely local businesses. And since all businesses pay the same wage to remain competitive, workers get more money in their pockets. This leads to increased spending by those same people.

There’s a ton of other factors as well but it’s well beyond commenting here.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#590

Post by dudefeliciano »

yostrovs wrote: post #548
dudefeliciano wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand the Public Spaces Protection Order is a law that exists exactly for this reason, how would this be a judicial overreaction? Seems similar to the German law that makes it illegal to wear politcal symbols or talk politics outside of polling places. There is an undefined "buffer zone" outside of the voting location where, if you display political symbols, you will be arrested. This is a limitation…

The man in the linked article did not display any signs or symbols, did not engage in speech, and did not "express" himself. If standing solemn is an arrestable offense, then anyone doing anything is subject to arrest. The police may think fascist thoughts are running through any random person's mind at this very moment.

This makes it sound like the police just passed by, saw him there and decided to arrest him, when in fact:

"On the day, he was asked to leave the area by a community officer who spoke to him for an hour and 40 minutes - but he refused."

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g9kp7r00vo

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