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Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

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Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#581

Post by kllrnohj »

perching_aix wrote: post #576
kllrnohj wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Digital Foundry just covered this. 3x and 4x both add additional latency on top of 2x. https://youtu.be/xpzufsxtZpA?si=hZZlX-g_nueAd7-Q

"Frame generation (FG)" was not a feature in DLSS 2 - the subthread starter was speculating about MFG (of DLSS 4) having worse latency than FG (of DLSS 3), on the basis of more interpolated frames meaning being more frames behind. To me this sounds not quite right, because while yes, you'll technically be more frames behind, those frames are also presented for a that much shorter period. There's no further detail ava…

Nobody is talking about DLSS 2 here so I don't know where that came from. The 2x, 3x, and 4x in my post are the number of generated frames. So 2x == DLSS 3, and 3x and 4x are then part of the new MFG in DLSS 4.

Digital Foundry has actual measurements, so whether or not that matches your intuition is irrelevant. But I think the part you forgot is that generating the frames still takes time in and of itself, and you then need to still present those at a consistent rate for motion smoothness.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#582

Post by AdrianB1 »

bitmasher9 wrote: post #507
UltraSane wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DLSS 4 uses a completely new model with twice as many parameters and seems to be a big improvement.

I hope so, because it looks like 8k traditional rendering won’t be an option for this decade.

Even 4k monitors are relatively rare and most monitors today are still 1080p, 60 Hz. Yes, you don't need a 5090 to play games on that, but 5090 is a very niche product, while x060 cards are the overwhelming majority. 8k rendering is needed just for the 5 or 6 people that wants it.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#583

Post by perching_aix »

kllrnohj wrote: post #581
perching_aix wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Frame generation (FG)" was not a feature in DLSS 2 - the subthread starter was speculating about MFG (of DLSS 4) having worse latency than FG (of DLSS 3), on the basis of more interpolated frames meaning being more frames behind. To me this sounds not quite right, because while yes, you'll technically be more frames behind, those frames are also presented for a that much shorter period. There's no further detail ava…

Nobody is talking about DLSS 2 here so I don't know where that came from. The 2x, 3x, and 4x in my post are the number of generated frames. So 2x == DLSS 3, and 3x and 4x are then part of the new MFG in DLSS 4. Digital Foundry has actual measurements, so whether or not that matches your intuition is irrelevant. But I think the part you forgot is that generating the frames still takes time in and of itself, and you th…

Seems like I misunderstood your notation.

> Digital Foundry has actual measurements, so whether or not that matches your intuition is irrelevant.

I mean, it's pretty relevant to me. Will watch it later then.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#584

Post by AdrianB1 »

pshc wrote: post #565
danudey wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of the "massive gains" were comparing DLSS and other optimization strategies to standard hardware rendering. > Something tells me Nvidia made next to no gains for this generation. Sounds to me like they made "massive gains". In the end, what matters to gamers is 1. Do my games look good? 2. Do my games run well? If I can go from 45 FPS to 120 FPS and the quality is still there, I don't care if it's because of f…

DLSS artifacts are pretty obvious to me. Modern games relying on temporal anti aliasing and raytracing tend to be blurry and flickery. I prefer last-gen games at this point, and would love a revival of “brute force” rasterization.

As long as you can still disable DLSS from the game menu, it is good enough for me. I don't care about fake frames, I disable fake frames.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#585

Post by gmueckl »

lovich wrote: post #488
dragontamer wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if two frames are fake and only one frame is based off of real movements, then you've actually lost a fair bit of latency and will have noticably laggier controls. Making better looking individual frames and benchmarks for worse gameplay experiences is an old tradition for these GPU makers.

If anyone thinks they are having laggier controls or losing latency off of single frames I have a bridge to sell them. A game running at 60 fps averages around ~16 ms and good human reaction times don’t go much below 200ms. Users who “notice” individual frames are usually noticing when a single frame is lagging for the length of several frames at the average rate. They aren’t noticing anything within the span of an a…

What I think is going on here has to do with lousy game engine implementations: with modern graphics APIs you have to take extra steps beyond relying on the swapchain to avoid running ahead of the GPU for multiple frames. It's not obvious and and I suspect a lot of games aren't that good at managing that. If the CPU runs ahead, you have a massive multi-frame input-to-screen lag that changes a lot with monitor FPS. But it's not the extra frames themselves that make the difference. It's just correcting for poor code.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#586

Post by AdrianB1 »

geerlingguy wrote: post #483
ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The human eye can't see more than 60 fps anyway

Can definitely see more than 60, but it varies how much more you can see. For me it seems like diminishing returns beyond 144Hz. Though some CRT emulation techniques require more than that to scale realistic 'flickering' effects.

You are right, but diminishing returns technically start around 60.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#587

Post by Teever »

UltraSane wrote: post #529
bitmasher9 wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope so, because it looks like 8k traditional rendering won’t be an option for this decade.

there aren't many 8k monitors. I would rather have 300fps 4k

What is the draw to 300fps?

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#588

Post by _carbyau_ »

marricks wrote: post #347
jbarrow wrote: post #288

The increasing TDP trend is going crazy for the top-tier consumer cards: 3090 - 350W 3090 Ti - 450W 4090 - 450W 5090 - 575W 3x3090 (1050W) is less than 2x5090 (1150W), plus you get 72GB of VRAM instead of 64GB, if you can find a motherboard that supports 3 massive cards or good enough risers (apparently near impossible?).

I got into desktop gaming at the 970 and the common wisdom (to me at least, maybe I was silly) was I could get away with a lower wattage power supply and use it in future generations cause everything would keep getting more efficient. Hah...

I thought opposite. My powersupply is just another component. I'll upgrade it as I need to. But keeping it all quiet and cool...

I built a gaming PC aiming to last 8-10 years. I spent $$$ on MO-RA3 radiator for water cooling loop.

My view:

1. a gaming PC is almost always plugged into a wall powerpoint

2. loudest voices in the market always want "MOAR POWA!!!"

1. + 2. = gaming PC will evolve until it takes up the max wattage a powerpoint can deliver.

For the future: "split system aircon" built into your gaming PC.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#589

Post by AdrianB1 »

ryao wrote: post #537
Yizahi wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are saying that Nvidia will finally force USA to the 220V standard? :)

The U.S. has been 240V for over a century. It uses split phase which has opposite phases on each hot line to let you take one and connect it to neutral to get 120V. If you connect both hot lines, you get 240V. For some reason, people in Europe and other places are unaware of this despite this having been the case since electrification happened in the early 20th century.

People are aware of this, but the regular sockets are connected to 120V only. You can (easily) hack an electrical circuit ("consumer unit" in UK) to deliver 240V on an existing plug, but that would be a very serious code violation. SO unless you hack your house circuits, you have 120V on regular sockets.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#590

Post by marricks »

marricks wrote: post #347
jbarrow wrote: post #288

The increasing TDP trend is going crazy for the top-tier consumer cards: 3090 - 350W 3090 Ti - 450W 4090 - 450W 5090 - 575W 3x3090 (1050W) is less than 2x5090 (1150W), plus you get 72GB of VRAM instead of 64GB, if you can find a motherboard that supports 3 massive cards or good enough risers (apparently near impossible?).

I got into desktop gaming at the 970 and the common wisdom (to me at least, maybe I was silly) was I could get away with a lower wattage power supply and use it in future generations cause everything would keep getting more efficient. Hah...

For the curious what I actually did was stop gaming and haven't bought a GPU since 2000's! GPU stuff is still interesting to me, though.
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