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GPT-5 is behind schedule

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581–590 of 1001 posts

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pop sci fi book can be written by someone who knows the topic and reviewed by people who know the topic — and a history book can also not. LLM generated answers are more comparable to ad-hoc human expert's answers and not to written books. But it's much simpler to statistically evaluate and correct them. That is how we can know that, on average, LLMs are improving and are outperforming human experts on an increasin…

In my experience LLM generated answers are more comparable to an ad-hoc answer by a human with no special expertise, moderate google skills, but good bullshitting skills spending a few minutes searching the web, reading what they find and synthesizing it, waiting long enough for the details to get kind of hazy, and then writing up an answer off the top of their head based on that, filling in any missing material by j…

More like "have already skimmed half of the entire Internet in the past", but yeah. That's exactly the mental model IMO one should have with LLMs.

Of course don't forget that "writing up an answer off the top of their head based on that, filling in any missing material by just making something up" is what everyone does all the time, and in particular it's what experts do in their areas of expertise. How often those snap answers and hasty extrapolations turn out correct is, literally, how you measure understanding.

EDIT:

There's some deep irony here, because with LLMs being "all system 1, no system 2", we're trying to give them the same crutches we use on the road to understanding, but have them move the opposite direction. Take "chain of thought" - saying "let's think step by step" and then explicitly going through your reasoning is not understanding - it's the direct opposite of it. Think of a student that solves a math problem step by step - they're not demonstrating understanding or mastery of the subject. On the contrary, they're just demonstrating they can emulate understanding by more mechanistic, procedural means.

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an LLM can't be left to do mowing by itself, but a human will have to closely monitor and intervene at every its steps, then it's just a super fast predictive keyboard, no?

But what if the human only has to intervene once every 100 hours, that’s a huge productivity boost.

The point is you don't know when of those 100 hours that is, so you still need to monitor the full 100 hour time span.

Can still be a boost. But definitely not the same magnitude.

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#583

One fundamental challenge to me is that if each training run because more and more expensive, the time it takes it to learn what works/doesn't work widens. Half a billion dollars for training a model is already nuts, but if it takes 100 iterations to perfect it, you've cumulatively spent 50 billion dollars... Smaller models may actually be where rapid innovation continues simply because of tighter feedback loops. O3…

When you think about it it's astounding how much energy this technology consumes versus a human brain which runs at ~20W [1]. [1] https://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/JacquelineLing.shtml

It’s almost as if human intelligence doesn’t involve performing repeated matrix multiplications over a mathematically transformed copy of the internet. ;-)

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#584
post #512
post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know the answers are correct? More than once I got eloquent answer that are completely wrong.

There's something here that I feel is pretty deep, though offensive for some minds: What is the actual consequence of being wrong? Of not getting right the base reality of a situation? Usually, stasis is the enemy that is much great than false information. If people with 90% truth can take a step forward in the world, even if they mistakenly think they have 100% truth, what does it matter? They're learning more and a…

Yes! There’s no ‘element’ of truth. Funnily enough, this isn’t a philosophical question for me either.

The industrialization of content generation, misinformation, and inauthentic behavior are very problematic.

I’ve hit on an analogy that’s proving very resilient at framing the crossroads we seem to be at - namely the move to fiat money from the gold standard.

The gold standard is easy to understand, and fiat money honestly seems like madness.

This is really similar to what we seem to be doing with genAI, as it vastly outstrips humanity’s capacity to verify.

There’s a few studies out there that show that people have different modes of content consumption. A large chunk of content consumption is for casual purposes, and without any desire to get mired into questions of accuracy. About 10% of the time (some small %, I don’t remember the exact) people care about the content being accurate.

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#585
post #458

I'm sure the debate over the definition of AGI is important and will continue for a while, but... I can't care about it anymore. Between Perplexity searching and summarizing, Claude explaining, and qwen (and other tools) coding, I'm already as happy as can be with whatever you want to call this level of intelligence. Just today I used a completely local AI research tool, based on Ollama. It worked great. Maybe it won…

At this point I think even the most bearish have to concede that LLM's are an amazing tool. But OpenAI was never supposed to be about creating tools. They're supposed to create something that can completely take over entire projects for you, not just something that can help you work on the projects faster. If they can't pull that off in the next year or two, they're gonna seriously struggle to raise the next 10B they…

Tesla is still valued high, despite FSD did not came, despite being promised. So OpenAI would get away with delivering ChatGPT5, if it is better than the competition.

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#586
post #564
post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt they rocked they world of 10% of the people. Time to get out of the tech bubble.

This here is a technology forum bucko. Also it's a figure of speech. Also I've done more manual labor than you'll ever do in your life. Time to get out of whatever bubble youre in where you be pedantic and annoying

I haven't heard anyone in my circle talk about this at all. You probably are in a tech bubble.

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#587

I'm sure the debate over the definition of AGI is important and will continue for a while, but... I can't care about it anymore. Between Perplexity searching and summarizing, Claude explaining, and qwen (and other tools) coding, I'm already as happy as can be with whatever you want to call this level of intelligence. Just today I used a completely local AI research tool, based on Ollama. It worked great. Maybe it won…

If the progress in capabilities stall, the product fit, adoption, ease of use are the next battlefield.

OpenAI may be first to realize and switch, so they still have a chance to recoup some of those billions

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#588
post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s trivial to address this. You ask an actual expert. I don’t treat any water cooler conversation as accurate. It’s for fun and socializing.

Asking an expert is only trivial if you have access to an expert to ask!

This is a true statement.

This is also not related to the problem being trivialized in the presented solution.

Lack of access to experts, doesn’t improve the quality of water cooler conversations.

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#589
post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Experience. If I recognize they give unreliable answers on a specific topic I don’t question them anymore on that topic. If they lie on purpose I don’t ask them anything anymore. The real experts give reliable answers, LLMs don’t. The same question can yield different results.

So LLMs are unreliable experts, okay. They're still useful if you understand their particular flavor of unreliability (basically, they're way too enthusiastic) - but more importantly, I bet you have exactly zero human experts on speed dial. Most people don't even know any experts personally, much less have one they could call for help on demand. Meanwhile, the unreliable, occasionally tripping pseudo-experts named GP…

> Most people don't even know any experts personally, much less have one they could call for help on demand.

Most people can read original sources.

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#590

One fundamental challenge to me is that if each training run because more and more expensive, the time it takes it to learn what works/doesn't work widens. Half a billion dollars for training a model is already nuts, but if it takes 100 iterations to perfect it, you've cumulatively spent 50 billion dollars... Smaller models may actually be where rapid innovation continues simply because of tighter feedback loops. O3…

When you think about it it's astounding how much energy this technology consumes versus a human brain which runs at ~20W [1]. [1] https://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/JacquelineLing.shtml

A human brain is also more intelligent (hopefully) and is inside a body. In a way GPT resembles Google more than it resembles us.
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