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Updates to H-1B

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Re: Updates to H-1B

#581

Post by cadamsau »

For everyone who thinks H-1B and its ilk make it possible to hire foreign workers at below what citizens are paid - have a look on your favorite search engine for:

“Prevailing wage condition”

It’s a requirement that’s part of the Labor Condition Application wherein based on the location you’ll work (the “Metropolitan Service Area” or MSA) to be granted a visa your employer must prove they’ll pay you above publicly available and published minimum wages for each job title.

These wages are public. If you have a problem with what they’re permitted to pay H-1B workers, the published prevailing wages are what you have a problem with. Spoiler though: they’re actually pretty accurate.

Here is one example of how hard it is to underpay workers on visas: during the pandemic, workers on visas were not legally allowed to be furloughed, because they would run the risk of not meeting the prevailing wage that year, putting the employer out of compliance with the LCA and subject to fines in the event of an audit. So what happened in practice was negotiated unpaid leave or in most cases the US gov covered wages via programs like PPP.

Now this is all out the window if the published prevailing wage for a given occupation is too low or the employer somehow sneaks one by the consular officials approving petitions - by selecting a title too junior for the applicant’s years of experience, for example. There will always be anecdata that makes this seem like a huge problem so be wary because one story does not a trend make. As mentioned above, by and large the prevailing wages are pretty on point with what American citizens are paid.

The reality of the way this system works is it’s WAY more technical than fearmongerers would have you believe. Visa holders are very much NOT undercutting anyone and the H-1B is not a completely broken system - even though the lottery and the fraudulent applications cause hell for applicants and employers it does basically do what it’s intended to do. So besides the exploitative situation these changes seem to proactively address, it mostly works and alongside the O-1 and a few other visa categories, has played a key role in the US’ ongoing supremacy in AI and many other industries.

Source: Australian citizen spent over 6 years working in SF on an E-3 visa which is very similar to H-1B.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#582

Post by atlgator »

foobiekr wrote: post #579
atlgator wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pool of Americans that can qualify for a clearance is very small. You'd be surprised how many people have poor credit, bad debt, foreclosures, foreign connections, drug use and/or arrest history. It's not a fair comparison to the applicant pool available to your typical industry business. When I got my TS out of college, the OPM agent went to my old frat house and interviewed people at random, then went to my gir…

past drug use does not preclude a clearance (edited)

It absolutely can. Depends on the drug and when it was last used, if you had any drug-related incidents or court ordered rehabilitation.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#583

Post by beambot »

snakeyjake wrote: post #342
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #161

A supposed shortage of qualified US applicants for tech jobs, especially software developers, doesn't jibe with the huge numbers of US developers currently looking for work, including highly experienced older workers suffering from age discrimination. I'd be surprised if more than 5-10% of H-1B positions are ones where the hiring company has even looked for US applicants.

My employer cannot hire H-1Bs. You must be a US citizen to work for my company. No "US Persons" (visa holders) or foreigners allowed. You have to be eligible for a Secret security clearance. You don't have to get one if you don't want to as there is usually plenty of uncleared work to go around, but you have to be eligible in case that goes away and we need to put you in for a clearance. We cannot find qualified appl…

> Yes, we pay well.

Prove it. What city are you in, and what is total comp for software engineer & hardware engineer with 20 years of experience?

I worked in national defense. It was a pain in the ass: shit pay, worst politics, massive tolerance for incompetence & mediocrity, meeting hell, and secrecy (necessary, but "need to know" gatekeeping wasnt at times).

Re: Updates to H-1B

#584

Post by janalsncm »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #526
dmayle wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why H1-B visas should have a minimum salary requirement equal to 20% over whichever is greater, median salary for the role in the industry, or median salary for the role in the company (and whichever is greater, US-wide, or local pay scale). This way, a company is always incentivized to find local talent, but when they are actually unable to, they have a path to find the expertise they need. The U.S. could re…

In general, H1B visas do have such provisions. At least in CA most jobs must provide a salary range. Even if every H1B is the lowest of the range in those postings, that alone means there are many many jobs which fit your criteria.

The ranges are way too low then. I checked H1B salaries and I found the following in San Jose (median rent approx $2200 for 1BR):

FLEXON TECHNOLOGIES INC Database analyst: $60k

DATA TRACE INFORMATION SERVICES LLC Software engineer: $65k

PRIMARIUS TECHNOLOGIES US LLC DATA ANALYST $72k

ZOOM VIDEO COMMUNICATIONS INC AI SCIENTIST $74k

HBI SOLUTIONS INC DATABASE ADMINISTRATOR $75k

BEACONFIRE STAFFING SOLUTIONS INC COMPUTER SYSTEMS ENGINEER $88k

https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=&job=&city=san+jose&year=2...

Sort by salary ascending and you will see what I mean.

These are blatant violations. We know how much software engineers should make. Do the immigrants know they are moving to one of the most expensive cities in the US?

Re: Updates to H-1B

#585

Post by coliveira »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #523
coliveira wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, tech companies claim that they cannot find good enough workers to fill their positions. But "good enough" is a subjetive classification. I can always create a test for which you are not good enough, it doesn't matter how much knowledge you have. And that's what tech companies have done for years. They'll aways craft a contrived interview process that will classify most people as not "good enough" and use this a…

Every dev interview process I've been a part of has not included consideration of the applicant's citizenship status. The interview process has many flaws, but it is not contrived to tailor itself towards H1Bs at the expense of citizens. At least, not at the companies I've worked at, which are household names. At TCL or Wipro? Sure, those are blatant offenders of the H1B visa.

Companies don't need to favor one group against another, they just need to make the process artificially hard, so they'll have the excuse that there are not enough workers ready to fill those positions.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#586

Post by cute_boi »

xtreme wrote: post #383
cute_boi wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The per-country caps is very important. Otherwise, you will see flood of same people which makes everything biased.

It's a policy based on unsound reasoning. Why is India treated as a monolith when it is more diverse than the EU in terms of linguistic and cultural diversity? If tomorrow India magically broke off into 30 separate states, all the same people who have been waiting for decades would be immediately eligible for green cards. How does it make any sense?

You might be right, but if u see the real situation Indian manager prefers Indian worker mostly. And it is mostly 2-3 states, not every states.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#587

Post by kennyloginz »

snakeyjake wrote: post #342
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #161

A supposed shortage of qualified US applicants for tech jobs, especially software developers, doesn't jibe with the huge numbers of US developers currently looking for work, including highly experienced older workers suffering from age discrimination. I'd be surprised if more than 5-10% of H-1B positions are ones where the hiring company has even looked for US applicants.

My employer cannot hire H-1Bs. You must be a US citizen to work for my company. No "US Persons" (visa holders) or foreigners allowed. You have to be eligible for a Secret security clearance. You don't have to get one if you don't want to as there is usually plenty of uncleared work to go around, but you have to be eligible in case that goes away and we need to put you in for a clearance. We cannot find qualified appl…

Hi, How can I get in touch with your hiring department?

Re: Updates to H-1B

#588

Post by sgerenser »

xerxesaa wrote: post #463
snakeyjake wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My employer cannot hire H-1Bs. You must be a US citizen to work for my company. No "US Persons" (visa holders) or foreigners allowed. You have to be eligible for a Secret security clearance. You don't have to get one if you don't want to as there is usually plenty of uncleared work to go around, but you have to be eligible in case that goes away and we need to put you in for a clearance. We cannot find qualified appl…

I'm a U.S. citizen and I've applied to plenty of these types of jobs. Had an offer at Palantir previously but would not take that now due to ethical concerns. I'm an older worker in management. Willing to be hands on. Not looking to get paid as much as Meta (I've worked there too) but also don't want something that pays peanuts. Willing to relocate to many places. Genuinely curious where I can find such jobs.

In my experience roles at companies like this in the southeast US pay around $120k for senior engineers, probably a bit more for management. Not sure if you consider that peanuts, but it’s significantly less than Meta.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#589

Post by dzhiurgis »

dmayle wrote: post #375
toomuchtodo wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a shortage of applicants willing to work at what companies want to pay. If it is taking more than 30-60 days for workers to find a role, there are enough workers domestically.

This is why H1-B visas should have a minimum salary requirement equal to 20% over whichever is greater, median salary for the role in the industry, or median salary for the role in the company (and whichever is greater, US-wide, or local pay scale). This way, a company is always incentivized to find local talent, but when they are actually unable to, they have a path to find the expertise they need. The U.S. could re…

And how you going to enforce this?

Re: Updates to H-1B

#590

Post by sciencesama »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #161

A supposed shortage of qualified US applicants for tech jobs, especially software developers, doesn't jibe with the huge numbers of US developers currently looking for work, including highly experienced older workers suffering from age discrimination. I'd be surprised if more than 5-10% of H-1B positions are ones where the hiring company has even looked for US applicants.

https://www.reddit.com/r/economicCollapse/comments/1hgghdb/f...
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