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US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

reuters.com

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Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#581

Post by Cookingboy »

dgfitz wrote: post #550
Cookingboy wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No speech or information is being suppressed; Except the whole reason for the TikTok bill is that information/speech will be under Chinese government control on TikTok and that can be weaponized. So make up your mind, if you say TikTok is being banned for the possibility of "weaponized propaganda", then it is information being suppressed. If you say it's not about information suppression, then you can't use the "Chi…

> … if you say TikTok is being banned for the possibility of "weaponized propaganda", then it is information being suppressed Eliminating weaponized propaganda is not even a little bit close to suppressing freedom of speech. Your argument falls apart there, like completely.

Except it is. The Supreme Court has actually ruled that the First Amendment rights for Americans to receive foreign propaganda, even during the Cold War:

https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/lamont-v-postmaster-...

I don't think you know what the First Amendment is. Not only does it guarantee freedom of expression, but also freedom to receive other's expression and speech.

The U.S. government is not allowed to ban any foreign books, movies, or even propaganda.

I really wish people like you do a little bit research before making such a confident statement like that.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#582

Post by throwaway17_17 »

kelnos wrote: post #298
throwaway17_17 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find your phrasing funny, the ‘they’ in ‘all they had to do was sell the CCPs stake’ is the CCP (under the operative theory that the CCP completely controls ByteDance). So it seems rather odd to say that the CCP was unwilling to sell their ‘stake’. Obviously the CCP is not going to willing give up their massively influential, culture destroying app (I don’t support this version of reality, but it is how politicians…

You say you don't "support this version of reality", and yet you've put up a compelling argument for it. If the Chinese government benefits from TikTok's ability to influence Western minds, then right, they may prefer the company dies than lose that capability. If they aren't running influence campaigns on TikTok that targets Americans, then they should be fine with a sale to a fully-non-Chinese owner. Sure, they los…

China’s potential usage of the app for influence campaigns (propaganda, if you will) is a near certainty. I just do not agree with characterizing these operations as culture destroying to the US, or to the West. I have no qualms about suspecting the CCP of using TikTok’s massive cultural reach to push/suppress narratives they find beneficial/hurtful, I am just skeptical of how much cultural eradication can occur. Both major political parties claim the same regarding their narratives (push/suppress) by the American owned tech companies but they are both still here and both conservatives and liberals, in the American context, are still using Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, and Google.

tl;dr - Sure the CCP is probably doing ‘the thing’, but it is not going to lead to the downfall of the mythical ‘West’

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#583

Post by Cookingboy »

jkaplowitz wrote: post #576
Cookingboy wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Deliberately misinforming people, especially under a foreign state payroll, is illegal. First of all if you have any evidence of TikTok engaging in it, you should present it since even our government have said there is no such evidence and that possibility remains hypothetical. Secondly no, it's not illegal to spread misinformation, no matter the motive. The First Amendment absolutely guarantees that right.

> Secondly no, it's not illegal to spread misinformation, no matter the motive. The First Amendment absolutely guarantees that right. Not accurate, no, assuming that by misinformation you mean information that the author knows to be false. To name just two quite legally clear examples with no inherent connection to foreign states, US defamation law and US product liability law often create civil liability and occasio…

>even though more targeted bans have been upheld as passing the relevant judicial tests for laws affecting First Amendment rights.

Such as?

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#584

Post by shlant »

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #569
snapcaster wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look in the mirror, you're the one convinced everyone disagreeing with you is a threat to the empire. Don't worry buddy, the CIA has plenty of propagandists you don't need to carry water for them

[flagged]

> Do they pay you to rabidly shill or are you just that far gone?

I am slightly on the side of the OP who originally made the claim but nobody should take anyone who throw's around the "paid shill" line seriously. You really are just labelling people you disagree with. Grow up.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#585

Post by ltbarcly3 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #573
ltbarcly3 wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several studies thwt strongly imply TikTok pushes an agenda.

Which ones? Can you link some or provide the right search queries to find these? Without substantiating your claim with links / references, this is an empty "appeal to authority" argument, aka weasel words.

[flagged]

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#586

Post by sabbaticaldev »

OhioMan2943 wrote: post #367
sabbaticaldev wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are hoping wrong then, tiktok block will only exacerbates this. Coincidence: in portuguese tolo means fool

In what world does blocking the most popular social media app directly lead to more usage of social media?

Tiktok being not from the US has differently tuned algorithms. That’s why it’s being banned. Now you have the right to be brainwashed only by US-approved algorithms. Don’t be a fool, tolo.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#587

Post by Cookingboy »

libertine wrote: post #547
Cookingboy wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Deliberately misinforming people, especially under a foreign state payroll, is illegal. First of all if you have any evidence of TikTok engaging in it, you should present it since even our government have said there is no such evidence and that possibility remains hypothetical. Secondly no, it's not illegal to spread misinformation, no matter the motive. The First Amendment absolutely guarantees that right.

[flagged]

>It is illegal if it is paid for foreign state and undeclared.

Good. Because ByteDance has never tried to hide the fact that it's a Chinese company. So that argument wouldn't matter even if there are evidence of them pushing Chinese propaganda.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#588

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

cess11 wrote: post #507
professor_v wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do we ensure that Tiktok doesn't covertly alter the algorithm to subtly include propaganda tailored to China's geopolitical interests that are detrimental to the US? Or even just propaganda tailored to enhance internal strife to weaken the country?

Do you really think TikTok has more power in the US than the local oligarchs and warlords? Short-form video does more to "internal strife" than the lack of basic government services, widespread substance abuse and state violence?

I don’t know who specifically you mean by “local oligarchs and warlords”. Do I think TikTok has more power and influence in the US than the average Fortune 500 CEO? Without a doubt.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#589

Post by Cookingboy »

shlant wrote: post #580
Cookingboy wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Deliberately misinforming people, especially under a foreign state payroll, is illegal. First of all if you have any evidence of TikTok engaging in it, you should present it since even our government have said there is no such evidence and that possibility remains hypothetical. Secondly no, it's not illegal to spread misinformation, no matter the motive. The First Amendment absolutely guarantees that right.

> Secondly no, it's not illegal to spread misinformation, no matter the motive. The First Amendment absolutely guarantees that right. Again, does NOBODY know what the first amendment covers??? If you yell FIRE in a crowded theatre (misinformation) that is not covered by the 1st amendment[1]. Please stop talking confidently about something you don't understand. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_State…

If you do understand First Amendment then you should also understand that foreign propaganda is protected speech, and is not treated as yelling fire in a crowded theater:

https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/lamont-v-postmaster-...

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#590

Post by Cookingboy »

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #585
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which ones? Can you link some or provide the right search queries to find these? Without substantiating your claim with links / references, this is an empty "appeal to authority" argument, aka weasel words.

[flagged]

>There are a bunch and they are very easy to find.

Really? Because the U.S. government, in their own court filing, have openly admitted that there is no evidence of TikTok's wrong doing in terms of manipulating information.

I don't think it gets much more authoritative than U.S. government's own court filing.

The link you provided has been debunked over and over again. It was a paid-for study aimed to generate certain conclusion.

And its methodology is silly at best, insane at worst (uses U.S. social media company as a control group for neutrality on China lmao).

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