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Apple introduces M4 chip

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Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#581

Post by brookst »

nox101 wrote: post #573
andsoitis wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending data up to the cloud for processing). Their primary business goal is to sell hardware. Yes, they’ve diversified into services and being a shopping mall for all, but it is about selling lu…

Their primary business is transitioning to selling services and extracting fees. It's their primary growth

Hey, I'm way ahead of Apple. I sell my services to my employer and extract fees from them. Do you extract fees too?

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#582

Post by rfoo »

serial_dev wrote: post #549
andsoitis wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending data up to the cloud for processing). Their primary business goal is to sell hardware. Yes, they’ve diversified into services and being a shopping mall for all, but it is about selling lu…

It doesn't need to stay true forever. The alternative is Google / Android devices and OpenAI wrapper apps, both of which usually offer a half baked UI, poor privacy practices, and a completely broken UX when the internet connection isn't perfect. Pair this with the completely subpar Android apps, Google dropping support for an app about once a month, and suddenly I'm okay with the lesser of two evils. I know they are…

> The alternative is Google / Android devices

No, the alternative is Android devices with everything except firmware built from source and signed by myself. And at the same time, being secure, too.

You just can't have this on Apple devices. On Android side choices are limited too, I don't like Google and especially their disastrous hardware design, but their Pixel line is the most approachable one able to do all these.

Heck, you can't even build your own app for your own iPhone without buying another hardware (a Mac, this is not a software issue, this is a legal issue, iOS SDK is licensed to you on the condition of using on Apple hardware only) and a yearly subscription. How is this acceptable at all?

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#583

Post by slashdev »

acdha wrote: post #576
slashdev wrote: post #72

I've got a Mac Pro paperweight because the motherboard went. It's going to the landfill. I can't even sell it for parts because I can't erase the SSD. If they didn't solder everything to the board you could actually repair it. When I replace my current Dell laptop, it will be with a repairable framework laptop.

> I can't even sell it for parts because I can't erase the SSD The SSD is encrypted with a rate-limited key in the Secure Enclave - unless someone has your password they’re not getting your data.

Not worth the liability. I’d rather the landfill and peace of mind than the money

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#584

Post by KerrAvon »

kernal wrote: post #567
rsp1984 wrote: post #457

Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…

> This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy How can they have a privacy first strategy when they operate an Ad network and have their Chinese data centers run by state controlled companies?

How can I have mint choc and pineapple swirl ice cream when there are children starving in Africa?

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#585

Post by slashdev »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #495
slashdev wrote: post #72

I've got a Mac Pro paperweight because the motherboard went. It's going to the landfill. I can't even sell it for parts because I can't erase the SSD. If they didn't solder everything to the board you could actually repair it. When I replace my current Dell laptop, it will be with a repairable framework laptop.

Why don't you take it to the Apple Store to recycle it instead of dropping it in the trash can?

They don’t accept computers for recycling. That’s what I found when I looked it up

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#586

Post by slashdev »

ipqk wrote: post #305
slashdev wrote: post #72

I've got a Mac Pro paperweight because the motherboard went. It's going to the landfill. I can't even sell it for parts because I can't erase the SSD. If they didn't solder everything to the board you could actually repair it. When I replace my current Dell laptop, it will be with a repairable framework laptop.

hopefully at least electronics recycling.

Nothing close enough, I checked

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#587

Post by SpaceManNabs »

jameshart wrote: post #579
SpaceManNabs wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is odd. I wouldn't say it is misleading, but it is odd because it borders on such definition. > Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices This is pretty much everyone's strategy. Model distillation is huge because of this. This goes in line with federated learning. This goes in line with model pruning too. And parameter efficient tuning and fine tuning and pr…

Everyone’s strategy? The biggest players in commercial AI models at the moment - OpenAI and Google - have made absolutely no noise about pushing inference to end user devices at all. Microsoft, Adobe, other players who are going big on embedding ML models into their products, are not pushing those models to the edge, they’re investing in cloud GPU. Where are you picking up that this is everyone’s strategy?

> Where are you picking up that this is everyone’s strategy?

Read what their engineers say in public. Unless I hallucinated years of federated learning.

Also apple isn't even a player yet and everyone is discussing how they are moving stuff to the edge lol. Can't critique companies for not being on the edge yet when apple doesn't have anything out there.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#588

Post by wan23 »

dheera wrote: post #483
rsp1984 wrote: post #457

Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…

> This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy Apple has never been privacy-first in practice. They give you the illusion of privacy but in reality it's a closed-source system and you are forced to trust Apple with your data. They also make it a LOT harder than Android to execute your own MITM proxies to inspect what exact data is being sent about you by all of your apps including the OS itself.

> Apple has never been privacy-first in practice > They also make it a LOT harder than Android to execute your own MITM proxies

I would think ease of MITM and privacy are opposing concerns

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#589

Post by macns »

rsp1984 wrote: post #457

Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…

> This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy

You mean .. with their said privacy-first strategy

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#590

Post by brookst »

deanishe wrote: post #521
joelthelion wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>n case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) I'm curious: is anyone seriously using apple hardware to train Ai models at the moment? Obviously not the big players, but I imagine it might be a viable option for Ai engineers in smaller, less ambitious companies.

Isn't Apple hardware too expensive to make that worthwhile?

For business-scale model work, sure.

But you can get an M2 Ultra with 192GB of UMA for $6k or so. It's very hard to get that much GPU memory at all, let alone at that price. Of course the GPU processing power is anemic compared to a DGX Station 100 cluster, but the mac is $143,000 less.

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