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Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#581

Post by morcheeba »

zmmmmm wrote: post #546
yakkityyak wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t quite understand why they happily subscribe to this model with Xbox PlayStation and Nintendo, but are adamant about getting their way with Google and Apple.

It's a good question. From the EU point of view it may be simply one of scale. If any of those held the amount of market power Apple does, I suspect the EU would designate them Gatekeepers and we would be off to the races. From the games publisher point of view, the console manufacturer is actually adding significant value and taking a fair (or not so fair) margin in exchage. Apple detracts value, contributes nothing…

>the console manufacturer is actually adding significant value and taking a fair (or not so fair) margin in exchage.

I don't get this. What does a game console manufacturer do that Apple does not? Both provide hardware, system-level APIs, dev systems, developer support, customers. In the old days, game manufacturers didn't even provide a sales channel.

And when you say Apple provides nothing, my above list is pretty solid. In the old days, developer margins were way slimmer, with physical stores taking a 50% cut on top of the console licensing fees and physical manufacturing.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#582

Post by kemayo »

davely wrote: post #394
casperb wrote: post #372

I just finished the last episode of The Talk Show podcast, where John Gruber says that Apple doesn’t hold a grudge and is only doing things because they make business sense. He said that because Apple approved Epic’s account and that they would be allowed their own App Store. I already that it was a bad take, but this shows it.

I find that Gruber occasionally has some interesting insight but it’s often hard to take him seriously these days — he’s effectively an unofficial PR outlet for Apple. (Fun fact: he co-created Markdown with Aaron Swartz) Edit: Swartz not Schwartz

He's pretty critical of them in some areas. Mostly in developer-relations these days -- he doesn't like the anti-steering App Store rules, and Apple's general "we provided the successful platform; your apps contribute nothing to that" attitude.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#583

Post by johnnyanmac »

SllX wrote: post #547
bsimpson wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic does have a history as an app store. They are the main competitor to Steam on Windows, famous for giving away games every week to drive traffic.

Apple doesn’t compete with the Epic Games Store on Windows anymore than the Epic Games Store competes with the App Store on iPhones. EDIT: just realized I originally mixed up Origin and the Epic Games Store. My bad.

>Origin competes with the App Store on iPhones.

I guess we'll see in the light of the DMA. Apple didn't allow EA to compete before, but who knows now.

But this seems to be missing the point. Epic Games wants to put their store on mobile, they had android on the roadmap for years. They very much want to compete.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#585

Post by mschuster91 »

xtracto wrote: post #457
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you also defend Microsoft of the 90's with the same argument for the similar issue? At least Microsoft had no way of stopping you selling apps for Windows but Apple is a next level of nefarious.

I think what Apple is doing is more similar to Nintendo I the 80s with their "seal of quality". There where a couple of companies that circumvented their security mechanisms and went to court. Was that wrong of Nintendo? My opinion is that, as long as people keep buying and using it, Apple can do whatever they want in their platforms. They will change when most app devs coordinately delete their apps from the store,…

> They will change when most app devs coordinately delete their apps from the store, in a mass "strike" or when customers stop paying for their shitty phones.

(Android user here.)

Apple doesn't make shitty phones, far from it. Solid build quality, performance and stability across the board... there are very few Android devices that can compete with Apple and almost all come from Samsung.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#586

Post by matwood »

zmmmmm wrote: post #546
yakkityyak wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t quite understand why they happily subscribe to this model with Xbox PlayStation and Nintendo, but are adamant about getting their way with Google and Apple.

It's a good question. From the EU point of view it may be simply one of scale. If any of those held the amount of market power Apple does, I suspect the EU would designate them Gatekeepers and we would be off to the races. From the games publisher point of view, the console manufacturer is actually adding significant value and taking a fair (or not so fair) margin in exchage. Apple detracts value, contributes nothing…

> contributes nothing

Other than cultivating a base of iOS users spending 7x more than Android users on apps[1]. That sounds like significant value to me and not dissimilar to what the console manufacturers pitch to developers.

[1] https://9to5mac.com/2023/09/06/iphone-users-spend-apps/

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#588

Post by [deleted] »

bsimpson wrote: post #502
SllX wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic also intentionally broke agreements with Apple before. Non-discriminatory doesn’t mean they have no grounds to terminate Epic’s developer accounts, and Epic is continuing to make themselves look untrustworthy by trying to publicly and explicitly shank Apple. Spotify is also trying to shank Apple in all the same places Epic is, but they also didn’t go behind Apple’s back to deceive the prior review process in con…

Epic does have a history as an app store. They are the main competitor to Steam on Windows, famous for giving away games every week to drive traffic.

[deleted]

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#589

Post by jsnell »

jimscard wrote: post #543
jsnell wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have any other companies announced credible plans for a competing app store? I'm at least not aware of any, which would absolutely make Epic their main competitor. It is pretty hilarious how people think some US court judgement would have any relevance on EU anti-trust regulation.

You’re missing a key point by calling this a “competing app store”. That’s not what it would be. It would simply be Epic’s app store with Epic’s apps in it, the purpose being to maximize Epic’s revenue on Epic’s games. Apple, in case you haven’t noticed, isn’t a game company — they don’t compete with Epic. Microsoft does. Steam does. Apple doesn’t. In fact, given that Epic games haven’t been on iOS in ages, there’s l…

No, it wouldn't be an Epic-only store.

One reason we know this is that Epic Games Store on PC isn't Epic-only.

Another reason we know it is that Apple has (arbitrarily) forbidden app stores that aren't open to third parties. Even if Epic wanted to make it a first-party only store (why?), they couldn't.

You claim that Apple isn't a gaming company. It's true that Apple doesn't really develop or publish games. But the App Store is the world's largest games store, larger than e.g. any of the console games stores or Steam. Every estimate I can find is that significantly more than half the App Store revenue is from games.

Finally, you suggest that nobody would publish games on Epic's store. That might be true on iOS just due to the unreasonable terms Apple set for that (in particular the core platform fee), but it certainly won't be true due to competitors not wanting to give 12% to Epic rather than 30% to Apple. This fear hasn't stopped companies from publishing their games on the PC EGS.

Apple claim that all their requirements are there just to protect the consumers. They might be telling the truth, they might be lying and actually just want to make life as hard as possible for the competing app stores. It's hard for anyone on the outside to be sure which. But terminating the developer account of the most credible competitor on the day DMA enforcement starts is a pretty bad look, and makes it quite hard to believe Apple's story on why the requirements exist.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#590

Post by pelorat »

batrat wrote: post #537
sandoze wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yikes, you might be disappointed: https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/google-asks-judg... I hear Huawei makes nice phones.

You can install any store (ex: fdroid, aurora, etc) on Android already.

Yes, but no-one does. Those stores only make sense if you have installed a de-googled AOSP, and their offering is maybe half a percent of what's on Google Play. It's an option for hackers, tinkerer and developers.

I guess it's nice the option exist, but in practice it make no difference. Most consumers are not even aware that you can sideload apps or that there's alternative app stores.

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