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Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

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Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#581
post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can drive in 12 minutes surely the walk itself isn't that long. Public transport is never going to be able to compete over a short distance. I used to commute 1.5 hours each way on the train from Wollongong to Sydney. The alternative drive takes the same or longer, depending on traffic. Hundreds and hundreds of people do this trip every day (and the equivalent from Newcastle). Another period of my life was liv…

>If you can drive in 12 minutes surely the walk itself isn't that long. I just checked this with google maps. In 12 minutes i can get 10 km from my house. That's a 2 hour walk.

It highly depends I guess. A 12 minute drive in peak hour in Melbourne on one of the walks I used to take was about 50 minutes of walking. At a different time of day, about 1hr and 50 mins of distance (using Google Maps to find examples).

Granted an hour of walking each way isn't necessarily doable. But that same track can be done in about 25 mins on a bike, probably less on an e-bike.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#582
It is strange to see people assuming blame already given how vague the article is. Even if it turns out that the bike broke a rule, it is possible that the collision was easily avoidable by the car. I am suspicious of the car because self-driving cars do not have a great reputation for dealing well with unusual situations. And how unusual is a situation? Anything that is not a car, truck, or bus doing something in the road?

Maybe self-driving cars are too dumb. How many specific types of "unusual" interactions with bikes, walkers, kids, dogs, etc., will each self-driving car AI model need to encounter to build up a large enough training set to learn to avoid a collisions for a specific type of interaction. Will there need to a training set of thousands of crashes or near misses of every precise combination of interactions that can occur with non-negligible global frequency in order for any self-driving car model to avoid collisions that a perfectly attentive, smart, and instant-to-react person would avoid? or do the models allow fuzzy predictions of what (for example) a bike might do even in cases where the model does not comprehend that a particular blob is a person on a bike.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no public transportation that can bring me home after saying goodbye to friends at 1 AM in a big city and having to drive one hour to my home in a little town. There is no such public transportation even during the day unless I want to spend 2 to 3 hours on a mix of metro, train and bus. And I don't have many choices about the time to leave. You could say that it's flawed to live in the countryside and/or ha…

> There is no public transportation that can bring me home after saying goodbye to friends at 1 AM in a big city and having to drive one hour to my home in a little town. There's a class of "ban cars" city people who cannot fathom this.

The ban cars (or fuckcars) is a cult in itself thinking that everyone in the world needs to live in a Amsterdam or Barcelona type city. Similar to OPs comment, they should just be ignored mostly as trolls because they offer no actual argument other than "cars bad".

Your preference for where and how to live or inconsequential to their goal of removing cars from earth.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#584
post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can drive in 12 minutes surely the walk itself isn't that long. Public transport is never going to be able to compete over a short distance. I used to commute 1.5 hours each way on the train from Wollongong to Sydney. The alternative drive takes the same or longer, depending on traffic. Hundreds and hundreds of people do this trip every day (and the equivalent from Newcastle). Another period of my life was liv…

>If you can drive in 12 minutes surely the walk itself isn't that long. I just checked this with google maps. In 12 minutes i can get 10 km from my house. That's a 2 hour walk.

It's maybe 20-30 minutes of bicycling, depending on roads.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#585
post #394

Everybody here is discussing the car and the cyclist, but I don't see anybody considering the possibility that the intersection design is unsafe. That there is a stop sign is a pretty bad signal in itself, Not Just Bikes made a video explaining this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42oQN7fy_eM

It's a low traffic 4 way stop sign intersection. Low speed, probably a 25mph speed limit? If you're cycling, this kind of intersection is only dangerous if you fail to yield/stop appropriately to auto traffic. Which seems like might be what happened here, from the description.

Does 4 stop sign mean cars have priority over cyclists? Sounds weird reasoning. But not living in this country I don't understand who would have priority if everybody has a stop sign.

Is it just a priority based on power? 18 wheeler > Buses > Cars > motorbikes > cyclists ?

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a low traffic 4 way stop sign intersection. Low speed, probably a 25mph speed limit? If you're cycling, this kind of intersection is only dangerous if you fail to yield/stop appropriately to auto traffic. Which seems like might be what happened here, from the description.

Does 4 stop sign mean cars have priority over cyclists? Sounds weird reasoning. But not living in this country I don't understand who would have priority if everybody has a stop sign. Is it just a priority based on power? 18 wheeler > Buses > Cars > motorbikes > cyclists ?

it isn't priority by vehicle type, but by time that you arrive at the stop sign. everyone has to follow the rules equally. approach the sign, come to a complete stop, whoever was there first goes. if the intersection is full, then opposite pairs alternate with whoever is going straight getting right of way, followed by whoever's turning.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#587
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have no reason to release it to the public. They don’t want to set a precedent. They will show the video to the regulators (CA DMV) and if they’re not happy, they will take action. It’s regulation working as intended.

> They have no reason to release it to the public. I mean, if it reflects positively on them, they have huge reason; they want to put as much distance between their response and Cruise's as possible, and show that they're acting in good faith. A large part of what killed Cruise was, well, either the cover-up or its employees' amazingly persistent internet connectivity problems, depending on how cynical you want to be…

The positive PR is so negligible it’s not worth it. This is an incident where no one was even injured.

If they want to put as much distance between themselves and Cruise, they just need to be transparent with the regulators and not play games with them.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#588
Waymo really needs to do an A/B test to demonstrate the safety of their cars: When you order a ridesharing car you randomly get assigned one of their driverless cars or an Uber with a human driver.

After a year see which group has the safest record. Simple.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO these are a slightly fake stat. You're comparing to overall stats, that include the drunk, the high, the sleep deprived, and the crazy wild aggressive wreckless. If you compare to my mother driving, the injuries per mile are higher in autonomous. You can argue that I'm making an unfair distinction since those people exist, but I'd say the people driving under those conditions are commiting a crime and shouldn't b…

You're in the write direction but I think you don't have the right words to describe what you're trying to describe. I made a sister comment, but if I correctly understand you, then it would be more accurate to say that the averaged statistic removes important variables for making accurate conclusions. We need not look at your mother, but we can consider different environments. I think most of us would say it would b…

> It's useful because if you have both and they are far apart you know there's a lot of variance

ummm. I would refrain from using nonparametric skew to make a comment about the magnitude of variance.

Essentially, the gap between mean and median will always be bounded by 1 sigma. The ratio abs(mean-median)/sigma is nonparametric skew. It is atmost 1, for any distribution( hence nonparametric, no distributional assumption required).

For unimodal distributions, especially symmetric unimodals, this ratio is 0. As the gap between the mean and median grows, the data gets more spread out, and the ratio captures that spread and consequent nonsymmetry. But you are using the value of this upper bound to make a comment about s^2. Which is very clever, but inaccurate. Say you standardize the rv and you have a nonsymmetric dist. Then mean 0, say median 100. Then stdev can be atmost 100, so variance can be atmost 10000. Which looks like “a lot of variance”. But is it really? Variance has a scaling problem, precisely why we take the square root, so the stdev remains in the scale of the mean. So at best one can say the stdev can be as big as the median. But that’s not very informative- because if the mean is -50 and median is +50, we are left with the same absolute gap of 100, so the same statement applies to the stdev even now.

I guess if I had to compare the variance of some sample X to another sample Y to make some claim that variance of X is much larger than Y, I would use a standard F test. Cooking up a test based on the gap between mean and median in a single sample seems somewhat shaky. It is very creative though, I grant you that.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#590
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s enough to establish public trust with their voluntary release of safety data and regulators closely overseeing their operations. Setting a precedent for releasing footage means fault is automatically assumed when they don’t voluntarily release it. It’s a problem if they’re not even releasing it to the regulators, but that’s not happening here.

It's not enough, because at least for me and a few others (e.g. the neighboring comment "If the footage is not released to the public I'm going to assume it makes Waymo look bad.") being able to judge the event personally can establish much more trust than anything they do with the regulators, because we also don't necessarily fully trust the regulators and their political motivation, and want to see if we would agre…

Unless you’re willing to watch millions of hours video of every Waymo vehicle driving and judge them in aggregate, watching a one-off incident will tell you nothing about their safety. At that point, you might as well trust their aggregate statistics reported to the regulators because they capture everything.

If you’re not an expert, it’s best to let the regulators and insurance adjusters do their job.

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