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Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

theguardian.com

581–590 of 903 posts

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#581
post #578

Interestingly if you read the actual report from HRW, it sounds like most of the material they are referring too was legitimately taken down because it supported violence, according to Meta's policies. For example, the phrase "from the river to the see" is considered hateful by many, so it was taken down. In other cases the content praised attacks by Hamas, which is designated as a terrorist organization by the US go…

yes the problem is most likely that a lot of people have become hamas's defenders recently for some uncomprehensible reasons. Like finding them justifications, or supporting them on the ongoing war. It's pretty insane if you think about. I remember some people in the arab world took side for ben laden on 9/11 but this time it's happening in the west too.

I recall PLENTY of "The west deserved 9/11 due to imperialism" sentiments, although not people who actually supported Osama Bin Laden.

I see similar sentiments around this war all the time, "Israel deserved this terrorist attack due to imperialism" but again really not much actual support for Hamas.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#582
post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if this is intentionally obtuse but its TRIVIALLY easy to find examples and journalistic documentaries demonstrating the apartheid going back years just of the top of my head, there are already seperate roads that palestinians are not allowed to go on. palestinians have to go through multiple checkpoints just to travel within their own territory. palestinians are tried in a separate military court with a…

This is a lot of anecdotal evidence. And you are touching a lot of different subjects which I don't have time to refute one by one. Examples: 1. Convinction rate in Israel is over 90% for the entire population, not just palestinians. This is because different reasons such as preference not to press charges if there is not a very high chance of conviction, plea bargains, etc. 2. Multiple checkpoints - The security sit…

> This is a lot of anecdotal evidence.

you see enough annectodatal evidence and it starts to become a pattern

> And you are touching a lot of different subjects which I don't have time to refute one by one.

thats how systematic oppression work. it has many facets and if you're pro israeli, you've only maintained that position by bot reading though the evidence

> Convinction rate in Israel is over 90% for the entire population, not just palestinians.

fair, but why do palestinians go thougha. seperate miliary court? why are children as young as 10 serving time in military prisons? october 7th was horrible but lets not ignore that it was motivated by people in a desperate situation trying to gain bargaining chips to have their loved ones released. some of those children released from the prisons in exchange for the israeli hostages were as young as 10 at the time of incarceration.

"Systematically exterminated" - This is an extreme hyperbole..

no its not. this proves to me you have spent no time watching any of the documentaries exploring this. you wouldn't last a day living in the west bank as a palestinian. Ive seen plenty of videos of settlers shooting down palestinians in cold blood with IDF soldiers doing nothing to stop it. they only step in when palestinians fight back. as an american who studied history, I know enough about the ku klux klan to to know ethnic cleansing when I see it.

> Please try to touch something more concrete than multiple anecdotes which most do not really represent anything similar to an apartheid government.

I think its obvious that there is no amount of evidence that would meet the bar for you to consider whats going on an apartheid.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#583
post #541
post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you really understand why it's an hateful speech when you wish my country stop to exists?

No not neccessarily. There are many examples of peoples who have wished their lands to become liberated from current rulers. I am for example thinking of Finland or the Baltics. It wasn't hateful of them to wish for that, and I never heard anyone even express that idea. There are ways to express hate, but this is not one of them.

What do you mean it was not hateful? War is not hateful?

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#584
post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes the problem is most likely that a lot of people have become hamas's defenders recently for some uncomprehensible reasons. Like finding them justifications, or supporting them on the ongoing war. It's pretty insane if you think about. I remember some people in the arab world took side for ben laden on 9/11 but this time it's happening in the west too.

I recall PLENTY of "The west deserved 9/11 due to imperialism" sentiments, although not people who actually supported Osama Bin Laden. I see similar sentiments around this war all the time, "Israel deserved this terrorist attack due to imperialism" but again really not much actual support for Hamas.

It's often accompanied by cheerful comments whenever an israeli soldier dies in gaza, killed by hamas. I think it's pretty clear those people are on the terrorists side on this war.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supporting Palestine is generally a left-wing view (proof: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/07/11/american-views... ). So Meta is censoring a mostly left-wing viewpoint.

What you've cited is US-centric; it's both reductive and fallacious to categorize this as left- or right-wing, when again, the article states that this phenomenon was observed in more than 60 countries. Perhaps where you're located it is a predominately left-wing viewpoint, but the rest of the world in general is very much against what Israel is and has been doing. The casual admission that support of war crimes / ap…

> "the rest of the world in general is very much against what Israel is and has been doing.

The casual admission that support of war crimes / apartheid..."

The "rest of the world" in general supports a ceasefire in the Gaza strip as evidenced by recent UN votes.

I'm not aware of any Anglosphere, European or Asian nation describing Israel's actions as either war-crimes or perpetuating apartheid.

While I'm happy to be corrected with sources - conflating the two seems like both a extreme reach and needlessly political.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#586
post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a lot of anecdotal evidence. And you are touching a lot of different subjects which I don't have time to refute one by one. Examples: 1. Convinction rate in Israel is over 90% for the entire population, not just palestinians. This is because different reasons such as preference not to press charges if there is not a very high chance of conviction, plea bargains, etc. 2. Multiple checkpoints - The security sit…

> This is a lot of anecdotal evidence. you see enough annectodatal evidence and it starts to become a pattern > And you are touching a lot of different subjects which I don't have time to refute one by one. thats how systematic oppression work. it has many facets and if you're pro israeli, you've only maintained that position by bot reading though the evidence > Convinction rate in Israel is over 90% for the entire p…

> you see enough annectodatal evidence and it starts to become a pattern

Pattern for what? a national conflict is not the same as an apartheid government. We might need to go back to how you define apartheid, because I imagine separate bathrooms mandated by law, and it seems you imagine a national conflict in an occupied territory

> thats how systematic oppression work. it has many facets and if you're pro israeli, you've only maintained that position by bot reading though the evidence

Sounds a bit ad-hominem

> fair, but why do palestinians go thougha. seperate miliary court? why are children as young as 10 serving time in military prisons? october 7th was horrible but lets not ignore that it was motivated by people in a desperate situation trying to gain bargaining chips to have their loved ones released. some of those children released from the prisons in exchange for the israeli hostages were as young as 10 at the time of incarceration.

Military courts are how you manage a military occupied territory, I believe this is quite common in international law. Also Palestinians can appeal to the Israeli supreme court, many do and many decisions are overruled.

About children as young as 10, I need specifics. Looking at Israeli human rights organizations which I don't think anyone would think are pro-government in any way, there weren't any younger than 14 for the very long while I scrolled (https://www.btselem.org/hebrew/statistics/minors_in_custody).

The difference between hostages is these minors were trialed for real crimes, which you probably wouldn't accept in your country as well (attempted murder for example)

> no its not. this proves to me you have spent no time watching any of the documentaries exploring this. you wouldn't last a day living in the west bank as a palestinian. Ive seen plenty of videos of settlers shooting down palestinians in cold blood with IDF soldiers doing nothing to stop it. they only step in when palestinians fight back. as an american who studied history, I know enough about the ku klux klan to to know ethnic cleansing when I see it.

Systematic extermination can be quantified. Let's say one way you could measure it is by comparing birth rate to intentional death rates. I assure you the growth rate of the palestinian population is extremely positive.

Another way you can measure it is compare it to ongoing conflicts, the Syrian civil war which is currently ongoing has 600k casualties spanning a few years. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is ongoing for almost a hundred years and it hasn't reached 10% of that.

It doesn't make it less tragic, but saying this is systematic extermination can minimize real cases of genocide.

> I think its obvious that there is no amount of evidence that would meet the bar for you to consider whats going on an apartheid.

I'm not sure. Again, apartheid is a government system that is based on systematic racism and discrimination. Although both exist in Israel, as in many other countries, this is a far cry than South Africa, or even the United States in the early 60s.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#587
Hamas is a terrorist organization, apparently backed by Iran, and are constantly spreading misinformation online, this is why it's censored?

I sometimes open "The Guardian" and the amount of times they quote "The Gaza Health Ministry", which would be no more trust worthy than the North Korean or Chinese health ministry, is fucking ridiculous.

If people thought about thing more critically then we wouldn't have to sensor everything but people don't they eat it up, and get all conspiratorial.

On the other hand, I think Meta have built a shit product that requires an insane level of censoring to keep even remotely civil. Unfortunately this flawed product has dire impacts on democratic societies.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#588

Censorship has been done to both people with right-wing views and left-wing views. It's not a question of if it's been done. We need to stop censorship of people on both sides. Obviously, this is very hard (or it would have been done by now). My idealist brain wants some big, overarching solution but I don't think that's really possible.

I'm not sure it's correct to classify this particular instance as either left- or right-wing; additionally, misinformation should be censored. From the article: >Examples it cites include content originating from more than 60 countries, mostly in English, and all in “peaceful support of Palestine, expressed in diverse ways”. Even HRW’s own posts seeking examples of online censorship were flagged as spam This issue se…

> misinformation should be censored.

This is such a fallacy. When the ones in power don't allign with your view, your view will be "missinformation".

The Vietnam war, Iraq war all got started on made up missinformation. Guess what kind of "missinformation" any laws about it would target?

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supporting Palestine is generally a left-wing view (proof: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/07/11/american-views... ). So Meta is censoring a mostly left-wing viewpoint.

What you've cited is US-centric; it's both reductive and fallacious to categorize this as left- or right-wing, when again, the article states that this phenomenon was observed in more than 60 countries. Perhaps where you're located it is a predominately left-wing viewpoint, but the rest of the world in general is very much against what Israel is and has been doing. The casual admission that support of war crimes / ap…

It's not accurate to say that the non U.S. world largely supports Palestine in this conflict. At least the EU seems to lean more towards Israel support.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#590
post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a lot of anecdotal evidence. you see enough annectodatal evidence and it starts to become a pattern > And you are touching a lot of different subjects which I don't have time to refute one by one. thats how systematic oppression work. it has many facets and if you're pro israeli, you've only maintained that position by bot reading though the evidence > Convinction rate in Israel is over 90% for the entire p…

> you see enough annectodatal evidence and it starts to become a pattern Pattern for what? a national conflict is not the same as an apartheid government. We might need to go back to how you define apartheid, because I imagine separate bathrooms mandated by law, and it seems you imagine a national conflict in an occupied territory > thats how systematic oppression work. it has many facets and if you're pro israeli, y…

ok so a large human rights group calling it apartheid isn't enough https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoFjbnvkmQ0&ab_channel=Amnes...

or the case where a 13 year oldboy was raped in prison and the IDF labelle dthe group trying to document and report it a terrorist organization?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnH61RvX-VQ&ab_channel=Daizy...

> Sounds a bit ad-hominem

I'm not talking about you specifically. I'm stating that the israeli position requires being absolutely obtuse and deflective for every shred of evidence that comes their way.

to be clear, no one is here to defend Hammas. I just don't think the IDF is any better.

case in point, they shot the three shirtless israeli hostages because they thought they were palestinians? so its perfectly fine to shoot unarmed people basicly?

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