What is the story here? That Israelis try to defend themselves online?
The fact that it is a story at all is concerning.
The pro-Israel information war
581–590 of 1001 posts
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#582I have no skin in this game. What I have seen is a confusion (perhaps intentional) between anti-semitism, and protesting Israel’s behavior since the Hamas attack in October. Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.
>Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response. Okay - then what should be Israel's response? For me what they are doing is the bare minimum with the minimum casualties from the options they have. Hamas is Gaza's government. Hamas has intertwined the civilian and the military infrastructure. Hamas has made sure that the civilian Palestinians will suffer if you targe…
> For me what they are doing is the bare minimum with the minimum casualties from the options they have.
Really? Israel routinely turns off Gaza's electricity (to the entire country) for days. It has also turned off all fresh water for similar durations.
I think we have different definitions of "bare minimum". That comes across looking a lot more "punitive".
In this conflict it told Gazan civilians to move to Southern Gaza because of the extensive bombing in Northern Gaza. Then it began increasing bombing in Southern Gaza.
There is a lot of Gazan support for Hamas. But Hamas also makes up a very small minority of Gazans (I believe 40,000 in a country of 2.3 million). Hamas is also the people who are armed (thanks to both Israeli blockades, oh, and when Israel found it politically expedient to encourage Hamas' militancy because a more moderate Palestinian Authority would make the far right Israeli government look worse by being more willing to compromise).
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#583Earlier quoted context omitted.
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You just did the thing: Conflating being pro-Palestine (Anti-zionist) with anti-Jew. Why is it weird to mention non-Israeli jews when being Anti-zionist? The point is to NOT conflate Zionism with being Jewish. The matter of what should happen in Israel/Palestine is separate from this discussion. Anyway, they wouldn't (in theory) necessarily have to go anywhere. Jews and Arabs could have lived together in a single dem…
If the mandate of the nation of Israel is to provide a place of refuge to Jewish people around the world, it must be a country that favors Jewish religion/ethnicity. I think this was the basis for the two-state solution, which somehow seems like even more of an impossibility than in the past. The mandate of Israel as a Jewish state is at odds with a free democracy with equal rights for citizens of all ethnicities/religions.
I am also a complete outside observer and have no insights to add, other than what is happening to innocent people has been awful and tragic.
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#584Earlier quoted context omitted.
One could say the same for "the other part": being pro-Palestinians doesn't mean being pro-Hamas, but that's also a convenient excuse used by people who are actually pro-Hamas. The problem happens when nobody is given the benefit of the doubt about being in group 1.
I thought you were going to say: "One could say the same for "the other part": being pro-Israel doesn't mean being a anti-arab racist who wants to ethnically cleanse Palestine, but that's also a convenient excuse used by people who are actually just that".
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Re: The pro-Israel information war
#585Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've noticed quite a bit of propaganda which is intentionally conflating these two pairs. That is, those who are advocating for Gazans are referred to as Hamas supporters and those advocating on behalf of Israeli citizens are accused of supporting genocide, etc. This is done to polarize both groups, encourage strongly negative emotional reactions, and prevent anyone from taking a more reasonable perspective to addres…
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Re: The pro-Israel information war
#586Information warfare has being part of war for a long time. It is happening from both sides of this war with multiple players taking part. Israel obviously has a large amount of resources dedicated to it, but Arab states and Russia a chipping in heavily too on the other side.
oh that evil omnipresent Russia!
Well it is omnipresent because they allocate resources to be omnipresent. If you did not notice helping to shift focus to what is going on in Gaza is helping them reduce the focus on what they are up to in Ukraine.
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#587Why is America so fixated on Israel? Groups like AIPAC and the Israeli lobby seem to be steering U.S. policies in ways that don't necessarily benefit the U.S., while potentially harming its interests. Here's what's at stake: This alliance seems to be turning about two billion people and dozens of muslim-majority nations against America, driving them towards alliances with countries like China. American taxpayer money…
About the last part - Israel is not friendly to the Kremlin. It merely doesn't actively attack due to the Kremlin control of Syria.
If Israel goes against Russia, then Russia will prevent Israel attacks that prevent Irans control of Syria and Lebanon.
life is way more complicated than you presented it
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#588There's so much (intentional) confusion around basic terms in this info war. Anti-Semitism, "antisemitism", anti-Judaism, anti-Zionism, and anti-Israel are all different concepts. Semitic peoples include both Jews and Arabs. To erase the latter (as Zionism does) and replace them with Europeans is by definition anti-Semitic, therefore Zionism is anti-Semitic. To address that, Zionism coined the term "antisemitism" as…
The difference between "Antisemitism" and "anti-Semitism" is merely stylistic. Both have been in use in English since 1880 when the word was borrowed from German.
It refers exclusively to hatred of Jewry not because Zionists, but because the term was was popularized in Germany in the 19th century by people who hated Jews prior to being brought into English.
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#589Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…
I think of this more as a distinction between exercising "platform power" versus "real world" power. #freepalestine is not an issue like #metoo, in that the court of public opinion does not really matter for the former, since Israel is a sovereign nation. The state of Israel is not going to get cancelled for toxic behavior. I think this was the argument framed in the article: despite popular support for the Palestinian cause, you are more likely to lose your job for stating pro-Palestine views. This is one probably reason that those without even enough clout to get fired for an opinion are even more rabid and vociferous. I understand your doubt of the organic pro-Palestine content, and I'm agnostic about it, but it is an easy train to get on right now regardless of the actual depth of your beliefs.
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#590Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the fundamental assumption of the analysis that there are two mutually exclusive groups, 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Palestine' is flawed. It is possible to simultaneously support the interests of Palestinian and Israeli civilians (and support a peaceful Israel within the 1967 boundaries), while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) and Hamas. I think it is cur…
I think that forcing this dichotomy is part of the deliberate pro-Israel media strategy - if you despise Hamas inhumane acts, then of course you need to be pro-Israel. They want you to focus on Hamas to steer away your attention from what Israel has been doing. (this is also one of the reasons why Hamas has historically been an asset for the Israeli right)
You're making a good point about the symbiotic relationship with the Israeli right. This reminds me of a recent interesting discussion on the Skeptics StackExchange: https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/56315/did-netan...