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Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

electrek.co

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Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#581

Post by berniedurfee »

mgiampapa wrote: post #196
vessenes wrote: post #47

Pretty sophisticated attack vector: low voltage attack on AMD secure execution environment during boot. I wonder how many tries you need to get whatever bits you need in the right place. Also, I imagine you only need to cut 12V wires to do this, but I admire the willingness to get in there direct on these systems. I'd be a little nervous to make those cuts personally. Buried in the article is the claim that this will…

Just like we used to have cable box guys willing to sell you an unlocked box for premium channels, we are eventually going to have feature unlock guys that you go do and for a small fee perform some slightly more technical hack to enable features that are already there.

And gray market chips you could swap into your US Robotics Sportster modem for dual standard 56k baud compatibility!

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#582

Post by harry8 »

sirsinsalot wrote: post #464

There's a lot of missing the point in these threads about software locks. Building a car in a uniform way for economy of scale savings, fine. Having a software unlock for hardware you already have (but didn't pay for in the price). Fine. Using software to rent-seek on one time costs like heated seats. Not fine. Less fine too if the seat subscription can't carry to secondary market. This can he used to cripple seconda…

>Having a software unlock for hardware you already have (but didn't pay for in the price). Fine.

Ok as long as /any/ end run around that garbage made by the car's /owner/ is specifically: legal, legitimate and not-warranty voiding.

Because you know the step from there to not being able to repair the things you own without paying more to allow you to do so is nonexistent.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#583

Post by jandrese »

nobleach wrote: post #533
no_wizard wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only hack on cable style TV I remember is you could buy modified satellite authentication cards for DirectTV for a time - usually on eBay or similar sites - and they worked. No idea how long, I had an uncle that had one though, got all the premium channels etc. I doubt any of this works anymore though

I worked for a cable company in the mid-90s. The amount of boxes that disappeared (and couldn't be located) was insane. The folks that procured them also used a "bullet blocker" (basically a resistor) to avoid the box being disabled. In the satellite realm, DishNetwork was always the easier service to hack. The FTA scene was completely overrun with folks buying 3rd party tuners. Once Dish switched to an encrypted sig…

I read an article about the early DirecTV hacking days and the cat and mouse game the hackers played with the company. DirecT cards were smart cards that ran programs for the decryption path. The hackers kept just duplicating whatever DirecTV sent down to keep them workign, mystery bits and all. Then one day a final update came out and those weird bits turned out to be a specially designed program that bricked all of the hacked cards. I'm sure that was a temporary setback for the hackers but it was a great story.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#584

Post by downWidOutaFite »

pests wrote: post #538
culi wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're joking, but there's a whole genre of "adversarial fashion"[0][1] dedicated to making clothing that spams these sort of public data recognition services. Hoodies with license plates, face masks with weird facial features, etc. Often optimized against actual neural networks too [0] https://adversarialfashion.com/ [1] https://www.capable.design/

Gait detection renders any of this obsolute sadly.

Luckily my gait is not in an adtech company's database and sold to the government, like my face probably is.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#585

Post by kibwen »

pests wrote: post #538
culi wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're joking, but there's a whole genre of "adversarial fashion"[0][1] dedicated to making clothing that spams these sort of public data recognition services. Hoodies with license plates, face masks with weird facial features, etc. Often optimized against actual neural networks too [0] https://adversarialfashion.com/ [1] https://www.capable.design/

Gait detection renders any of this obsolute sadly.

If you're willing to go to the lengths of adversarial fashion, you're probably also willing to walk around with a stone in your shoe, or in high heels.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#586

Post by acer589 »

pkaye wrote: post #450
fragmede wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Instead of manufacturing a 50, 80, and 100 kWh battery pack, and having to go through the whole process of getting certifications and everything for each size, they just make 100 kWh packs all day long, and then software limit them to 50. Which means, in the case of an emergency, the company can bestow extra range on lower-end vehicles, which they did for Hurricane Irma. https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/10/1628…

Does that imply there is not much of a manufacturing cost difference between 50 kWH and 100 kWH battery pack?

No, they were selling 75 kWh packs as 60. The gap was nowhere near 50 -> 100.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#588

Post by waithuh »

michaelt wrote: post #376
nordsieck wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand the mental gymnastic here. They built car with heated seats. You paid for car with heated seats that are technically fully functional but you can't use them until you pay even more. No, doesn't make sense to me. That's because you don't understand. The customer didn't pay for a car with heated seats. The manufacturer included them anyway, but disabled them in software. Presumably, a consumer coul…

> The customer didn't pay for a car with heated seats. Well, when you buy a car your payment gives you ownership of the entire car. There may not be a written contract or specification explicitly saying that the valves in the tyres are included in the deal, but they're your property nonetheless (in the absence of obvious errors like the dealer letting you drive the wrong car off the lot) The customer paid for a car w…

This all boils down to the contract, really. If the contract states that you do not own the heated seats, you have to pay for them. You can't skip reading the contract and say that you own the entire car now.

Not saying that BMW is in the right. Hell yeah they are extracting every penny they can, but you can simply protest by not buying from them. People support their decisions by buying their products and complain afterwards. There are many alternatives.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#589

Post by wpietri »

oatmeal1 wrote: post #529
liendolucas wrote: post #348

> Software-locked features that need to be activated by the owner paying or subscribing to a service are becoming increasingly popular in the auto industry. Sorry, WHAT? People should absolutely boycott companies that try to squeeze bucks in this miserable way.

People overreact to this. If this didn't exist, they would just manufacture cars the old way where multiple version of the same car are produced at high and low prices. I have seen no evidence provided this actually increases the total price of a high feature car. This might actually lower the average price paid because of the economies of scale achieved by making fewer different versions of the same car. Resale valu…

You have pretty strong opinions for somebody who has admittedly seen no evidence either way.

Personally, I think it's a terrible idea in that it further changes the relationship between buyers and sellers toward a relationship of long-term exploitation. It takes the notion of enshittification [1] and extends it into the realm of physical goods.

[1] https://kottke.org/23/01/the-enshittification-lifecycle-of-o...

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#590

Post by abduhl »

robryan wrote: post #557
myself248 wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in the day we used to just call those "standard features" and every car had them.

They could do that but would have to raise the base price. These addon features allows a cheaper entry point and price discrimination for those who are willing to pay more. Whether it ends up being wasteful is complicated, there are would be operating effeciencies in putting the same hardware into every car.

>> They could do that but would have to raise the base price.

Why? The component is already in every vehicle. This is not like binning for chips: every vehicle must (and does) have the capability because it’s unknown whether a consumer will pay for the upgrade. If anything, the price should go down because software costs have decreased by removing the software locks.

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