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Notes on Vision Pro

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Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#581

Post by Aerbil313 »

dointheatl wrote: post #554
lolinder wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that the ancient man living in the woods is absolutely right about cities—a person in a concrete jungle is dangerously isolated from reality. We know the negative effects of too little sunlight, we know the positive effects of exposure to nature. We know the negative environmental effects of the infrastructure that makes the concrete jungle possible, but those effects are invisible to the resident of th…

> Also, it's pretty clear that cities are too large for our social apparatus Citation needed? Humans have been living in cities for thousands of years.

Cities of the past are nothing like those of today. Nor the lifestyle of them.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#582

Post by Aerbil313 »

gherkinnn wrote: post #543
jstanley wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're taking a backwards-looking view of this. Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". In fact the very opposite is the case. Now, we go into nature to isolate ourselves. In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the g…

> Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". Forest man is on to something. Can I live in his family’s hovel and keep my antibiotics? Thanks.

Chances are you won’t ever need those pills provided that you survive beyond age 5.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#583

Post by Aerbil313 »

johncalvinyoung wrote: post #556
jstanley wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're taking a backwards-looking view of this. Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". In fact the very opposite is the case. Now, we go into nature to isolate ourselves. In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the g…

If this is the future I do not want to live in it. No VR is ever going to match the actual experience of travelling to a place unlike any you've ever been. No emulated persona is ever going to match looking into a loved one's eyes. I can see the benefits of AR/VR for productivity or for niche consumption, but it could be 'strictly better than current reality' only with the narrowest of cherrypicked definitions. No th…

Wait until neuralink becomes a real thing.

Do I want it? Of course not.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#584

Post by matwood »

OJFord wrote: post #513
aziaziazi wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t AR comparable to a headset the same way VR is to noise-cancelled headsets ?

GP said 'AV' (not 'AR') for 'Apple Vision' I assume - which 'tries to allow people to be present' through the 'EyeSight' feature (where it reveals the wearer's eyes, becomes translucent).

Correct. Apple Vision (AV) is also AR first which will help people remain present in their environment. Will it work that way in practice remains to be seen.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#585

Post by sanderjd »

malfist wrote: post #544
sanderjd wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our 15 year old and his gf have their phones out at all times, frequently switching to interacting, glancing at random videos, messaging, games, etc. Yes, and this is a bad thing.

Was it better when we all gathered around the radio?

Yep, like the other commenter said, it's right there in your comment: "gather".

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#586

Post by lolinder »

dointheatl wrote: post #554
lolinder wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that the ancient man living in the woods is absolutely right about cities—a person in a concrete jungle is dangerously isolated from reality. We know the negative effects of too little sunlight, we know the positive effects of exposure to nature. We know the negative environmental effects of the infrastructure that makes the concrete jungle possible, but those effects are invisible to the resident of th…

> Also, it's pretty clear that cities are too large for our social apparatus Citation needed? Humans have been living in cities for thousands of years.

Taking the Roman Empire as an example: Rome was by far the largest city in the empire at a total of ~1 million people. The others were estimated to have 500 thousand or fewer, with only 25-30% of the population living in a city at all.

Modern cities are enormous by comparison and our urbanization rate is completely flipped. 80% of people in the US live in a city, and we have 50 metro areas with a higher population than Rome had during the empire. Our largest metro area is New York/Newark/Jersey City at 20 million people, 20x that of imperial Rome.

And remember that Rome itself was an anomaly in its day, and the Roman Empire in general was an anomaly in European history.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#587

Post by ehnto »

JohnBooty wrote: post #553
ehnto wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for working in VR but I think us desk jockeys tend to underestimate what other people are doing for work. The lack of movement is what does thought workers in.

There are of course many jobs that are much more taxing on the body overall than waving one's hands at a Minority Report style computer interface. (I used to work at a restaurant! I've done actual work, I swear!) However, waving your hands in the air for 8-10 hours a day feels a bit unnatural relative to "actual" physical work. I don't have a real scientific basis for this statement. But there are some physics at pla…

I actually prefer keyboard alone due to the concise control, I find mice pretty clumsy. But there are things that it can do that I can't achieve on a keyboard and same for VR, perhaps we'll end up with blended work stations.

On the note of tiring out, I have been strength training for 12ish years now and I still get tired quickly when holding my arms above my head to work on my car. I think because they are a smaller muscle group, they can be saturated easily. I don't have the same issue with repetitive motions, it's just holding the arm in a similar position that does it.

Maybe if AR gestures take into account full motions rather than holding the arm in a similar position for too long, it might not tire so easily.

I have VR already and I will say it's an exhausting experience in general, I can flat screen game for hours, but in VR I want out in less than an hour. I think it's the full focus it forces on you, and the split world spatial reasoning going on.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#588

Post by eric_cc »

johncalvinyoung wrote: post #556
jstanley wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're taking a backwards-looking view of this. Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". In fact the very opposite is the case. Now, we go into nature to isolate ourselves. In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the g…

If this is the future I do not want to live in it. No VR is ever going to match the actual experience of travelling to a place unlike any you've ever been. No emulated persona is ever going to match looking into a loved one's eyes. I can see the benefits of AR/VR for productivity or for niche consumption, but it could be 'strictly better than current reality' only with the narrowest of cherrypicked definitions. No th…

While I agree with your sentiment, if VR becomes a 99.999999999% match it’ll change human existence whether we personally like it or not.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#589

Post by dwaite »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #429
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll become accepted I'm sure, if it breaks through; could anyone have imagined walking into a living room 30 years ago [0] and seeing everyone hunched over a phone? Or 80 years ago and seeing everyone around a television? I mean I get what you mean, but I also think that some things get normalized in subsequent generations. Our 15 year old and his gf have their phones out at all times, frequently switching to inter…

There’s been backlash to being on phones all day. iOS even guilt trips you every week with stats. It even guilt trips you for being too sedentary. If anyone is going to guilt trip you for doing too much of something, probably apple.

I’ve never felt guilt from those stats. They might make me evaluate the last week, but IMHO guilt isn’t really a helpful emotion when it comes to past (not active) behavior.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#590

Post by mrguyorama »

the_af wrote: post #576
dmonitor wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they mean “exclusive to VR” not exclusive to a particular headset

What does the word "exclusive" mean in this context? What would be a non-exclusive VR game that can be played on a VR headset? What are some examples? "Exclusive" in games consoles is a loaded word that means "exclusive to this platform and not available anywhere else". If the intended meaning is what you suggest, then I'd recommend removing the word "exclusive" and just saying "there is no affordable VR console with…

>What would be a non-exclusive VR game that can be played on a VR headset?

VRChat, Superhot, Simpleplanes, Flight Sim, Ultrawings, Phantasmagoria, Htiman, Nearly all VR compatible racing games, Rec Room, Euro Truck Simulator, Most VR compatible horror games like Phantasmagoria, etc etc etc.

Did you even try to look it up?

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