Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks • Hacker News Board

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#581

Post by mcv » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 2:07 PM UTC

GiorgioG wrote: post #563

mcv wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My F150 pollutes much less than my wife’s car simply by virtue of me working from home while she commutes every day. Awesome, but that's not about the car, it's about working from home. > Taking up more space is not an issue for people who don’t live in big cities. But it is for those who do. And still for a lot of people outside big cities. > Trucks are not more inherently dangerous than any other vehicle just bec…

> They should probably be required for all trucks. In your opinion > It doesn't have to fit all, but it does have to fit the environment, or at least take it into consideration. What does that even mean? It's a completely arbitrary non-specific statement. Look - if people don't want large vehicles, trucks or otherwise, they'll stop buying them and manufacturers will stop making them. It's entirely your right to disli…

The problem is that currently people are buying an F-150 when it's not fine for them. People are buying them instead of Fiat 500s because in a Fiat 500 they feel less safe in between all those giant F-150s.

Maybe you should look around a bit through the rest of the discussion here, but lots of people are pointing out that those F-150s exist because they don't have to meet the same requirements as the Fiat 500, which is ridiculous. Especially since they do require the same license. They don't have to meet the same requirements as passenger cars because by some rules, they don't count as passenger cars, but as trucks. But you can drive with with a regular license, and they're used as regular passenger cars. This discrepancy is causing problems with lots of people driving trucks far bigger than what they need.

Also, apparently, US fuel efficiency rules seem to encourage larger cars, which are less fuel efficient. Clearly a broken system.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#582

Post by NickBusey » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 2:24 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #377

quadrifoliate wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The /r/fuckcars folks are being a little dishonest here. As another commenter mentioned, this is like asking a vegan for steak recommendations at a restaurant. The subreddit is specifically named 'fuck cars'. How exactly are they being dishonest ? This is more like r/vegan showing how a vegan meal is better than a steak meal along some dimension, say, environmental impact. > I live in an urban area close enough to…

> How exactly are they being dishonest? They're comparing on a single dimension and laughing at F-150 owners. > This is more like r/vegan showing how a vegan meal is better than a steak meal along some dimension, say, environmental impact. Not when evaluating a purchasing decision, overall utility, or customer demographics and needs. I'm showing that morally opposed parties inject themselves and their biases orthogon…

The insinuation that you need a F-150 to go fishing and drink beer is hilarious.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#583

Post by cactacea » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 2:24 PM UTC

pigsty wrote: post #564

fooker wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The marketing trick here is 'assembled'. Nothing major is manufactured here.

At my previous job, I made the robots that Toyota, Suzuki, etc use in their manufacturing lines and directly installed them inside their factories. My experience is, for the most part, first hand. The vehicles Japanese companies make for the American and US markets have no overlap. Nothing sold in America is made in Japan, and nothing sold in Japan is made in America. A lot of those vehicles are loaded up into tracto…

4Runners have always been made in Japan, I haven't looked but I'd be very surprised if they were the only model Toyota doesn't manufacture in the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_4Runner

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#584

Post by soylentcola » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 2:33 PM UTC

smolder wrote: post #570

chrisco255 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to actually carry passengers in your truck, you want 4 doors and a full back seat. The new Tacomas are great trucks, because it's practical to carry cargo or people in them. Old single cab Rangers, Luvs, Tacomas, etc, were fine, but not as broad market.

If you need to carry passengers, a truck probably isn't the right choice. Four doors and a bed make for an oversized and inefficient vehicle for hauling either people or cargo alone. You say "broad market", I say "ill suited for most tasks."

Yep. It's a big reason I stuck with a Fit (can still cram in a decent amount of stuff) instead of a small pickup.

Aside from the fact that there don't seem to be small pickups anymore, the closest ones I've found all seem to have 4 doors and a really short bed. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had more than one passenger in my Fit, but I frequently need to pick up large items at the local home center or haul things to the dump (old home renovation).

But since most smaller trucks seem like large cars with stubby beds, I settle for having my 4x8 plywood sheets ripped at the store or scoring/folding drywall sheets so I can slide them in from the hatch to the passenger seat.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#585

Post by seabird » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 2:34 PM UTC

SkyPuncher wrote: post #432

seabird wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're at a safety advantage in a smaller vehicle more often than not. If you're in an accident going fast enough for the size of your vehicle to matter, you stand a very high chance of getting severely fucked up no matter what you're driving. You need to not be in the accident in the first place, and driving a large vehicle with worse handling, longer stopping distances, and a tendency to roll over does not help. Yo…

> If you're in an accident going fast enough for the size of your vehicle to matter, you stand a very high chance of getting severely fucked up no matter what you're driving. The most dangerous, a head on collision, will always be safer for the heavier vehicle. It's simple physics.

Rollovers are also extremely bad, and vehicles like the Tahoe have a ~25% rollover risk as assessed by the NHTSA. It's simple physics!

More than anything, you need to just not be in the accident in the first place. Buying a vehicle with dogshit braking and handling characteristics so you can "win" in a crash you could have just avoided is dumb, especially when you consider that you carry that increased rollover tendency every single second you're driving that vehicle.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#586

Post by soylentcola » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

ajcp wrote: post #296

jdmichal wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MY2022 Maverick is what the new Ranger should have been. And the Hyundai Santa Cruz also was introduced in MY2022. Finally some steps in the right direction, at least.

I really like the cut of those new Santa Cruz. Every time I see one I'm like "yeah, that's the stuff"

Checked em out, but again...more seats and less bed is not what I need. I just want a car-like light truck for me to drive around the city alone or with a single passenger during the week and pick up sheets of plywood or drywall on the weekends. Don't want a big truck, don't need to carry a family of four.

But Santa Cruz is at least a step in the right direction.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#587

Post by SkyPuncher » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 2:51 PM UTC

yellowapple wrote: post #445

SkyPuncher wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AWS/4WD drive can't be pulled off with a minivan while maintaining the flat floor that people expect. There's not enough clearance for a rear drive shaft.

I mean, it clearly can be, since AWD (and RWD, for that matter) minivans do exist. It's just less common for minivans than it is for SUVs, likely for the reason you mention.

Sorry, yes. It's technically feasible.

However, practically, it's not. Within the modern minivan sector, it'd be a non-starter to have a transmission tunnel when all of your competitors don't have that.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#588

Post by nluken » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 2:52 PM UTC

d0gsg0w00f wrote: post #435

nluken wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ford Maverick is better than most modern pickups, but still misses the mark. As you mentioned, the bed is significantly smaller than a 1990 Ranger despite being 6 inches longer[1]. Honestly the biggest issue I have with these vehicles is their height, which is a known hazard to pedestrians[2]. The Maverick doesn't fix that issue. [1] https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36651899/sizing-up-the-20... [2] https://www.…

I have questions about the pedestrian article. The article states that almost 3/4 of all vehicles sold are light truck or SUV. So wouldn't it just be statistically more likely that for ANY accident it would be a taller vehicle?

The actual paper discussed in that article isn't just comparing frequencies of accidents, but rather using them to calculate the odds that a given vehicle type causes a pedestrian accident in a variety of scenarios. In doing so the author determined that these vehicles were overinvolved in accidents relative to their frequency on the road.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#589

Post by GiorgioG » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 2:52 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #581

GiorgioG wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They should probably be required for all trucks. In your opinion > It doesn't have to fit all, but it does have to fit the environment, or at least take it into consideration. What does that even mean? It's a completely arbitrary non-specific statement. Look - if people don't want large vehicles, trucks or otherwise, they'll stop buying them and manufacturers will stop making them. It's entirely your right to disli…

The problem is that currently people are buying an F-150 when it's not fine for them. People are buying them instead of Fiat 500s because in a Fiat 500 they feel less safe in between all those giant F-150s. Maybe you should look around a bit through the rest of the discussion here, but lots of people are pointing out that those F-150s exist because they don't have to meet the same requirements as the Fiat 500, which…

> The problem is that currently people are buying an F-150 when it's not fine for them.

In your opinion.

> Also, apparently, US fuel efficiency rules seem to encourage larger cars, which are less fuel efficient.

I'm not sure where you get that idea from. We're generally less sensitive to fuel economy because gasoline in the US is cheap - because it's not taxed to the hilt (I'd be happy to pay higher taxes for universal healthcare, but that's another hot topic).

> This discrepancy is causing problems with lots of people driving trucks far bigger than what they need.

Again, "need" is subjective.

You're in the EU and you have your own mindset that's very different from the vast majority of American's mindset (I would know, my parents are EU immigrants.) Nothing wrong with difference of opinions...but you're not going to change people's minds here with these arguments.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#590

Post by cityofdelusion » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 2:56 PM UTC

JKCalhoun wrote: post #229

munificent wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still drive a manual 2002 Toyota Tacoma and you'll have to claw it out of my dead hands for this exact reason. I really love the utility of a pick-up truck, but I absolutely despise the size of any of them in the US in the past couple of decades. I wish they still made mid-sized pick-ups that were actually mid-sized. A Tacoma is nearly the size of Tundra was twenty years ago, and a Tundra today is like the size of…

Yeah, what the hell happened? And I miss my manual (1980's?) Chevy Luv.

Nothing has happened -- new trucks are within the dimensions of old trucks +-5% for similar configurations. This is very easy to validate with a quick search. The real question is how this myth got started.