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Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#581

Post by panick21_ »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #428
panick21_ wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling it L3 capable is like saying Tesla is Full Self Driving. Neither is true, both are marketing. > but I don't think there's any way to say that for sure I mean yes there is. If you want to have an object test where you drop a car anywhere in the world and see if it can get somewhere else, then clearly one is more useful then the other. In basketball they say 'the best ability is availability'. In terms of that…

If Tesla's work is actually going somewhere, then they don't need to change the engineering to get L3 in specific places. They can have a list that gets added to over time.

Actually it would be a lot of work doing that. Even if not just work on the software itself. Something like that would cause a lot of work in literally all over the company.

Also, they don't really have an inattentive to do that, so why should they.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#582

Post by TheCoelacanth »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #566
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is in no way comparable to Tesla's Autopilot system. Mercedes has an actual feature while Tesla recklessly gambles with other peoples' lives to juice their stock price. If Tesla believes that their feature is safe, then let them take legal liability for it.

The law does not require they take liability, so they shouldn’t. If you don’t like the law, change the law. If you don’t want to use a driver assist feature, don’t. But the data shows Autopilot is robust and regulators allow its continued sale and operation.

Legal isn't ethical. Musk is recklessly gambling with other people's lives.

I don't have a choice not to use this feature. The person driving their Tesla death machine on the roads with me already made that decision for me.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#583

Post by literalAardvark »

pbreit wrote: post #564
bigtex88 wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in a strange world. No one should worship that sad narcissistic piece of crap but yet the sycophants continue to multiply.

Arguably the greatest entrepreneur in history. Is that worthy of some praise?

Think I'd still go with Rockefeller on that one.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#584

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

pbreit wrote: post #562
saudade97 wrote: post #494

The amount of Tesla apologism in HN is nasueasting. Per the NHTSA, a safety recall is issued if either the manufacturer or the NHTSA determines that a vehicle or its equipment pose a safety risk or do not meet motor vehicle safety standards. On its face, Tesla's situation clearly calls out for classification as a recall.

I had the opposite reaction. The author is an avowed Elon & Tesla hater and tried to work in the word "recall" in almost every sentence despite that it will be a simple over-the-air software update. No recall whatsoever.

Just because the issue can be solved by an update ( and lately some recalls actually have been - see Huyndai GPS debacle ) does not mean it is not a recall. It just happens to have a different means of correcting it. In other words, update equals recall.

And that is before we get into whether it is appropriate to update something that can move with enough kinetic force to have various security agencies freaking out over possible scenarios in the future ( and likely cause for some of the recent safety additions like remote stop ).

In other words, just because he may be a hater does not make the argument not valid.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#585

Post by idop »

tensor wrote: post #54
jonny_eh wrote: post #2

Does a recall like this actually mean owners return their car to Tesla for modification? Or would it be an over-the-air update to remove FSD?

Almost all of these "recalls" that make the news are just software patches. The only difference between these and a normal patch is that customers get an email about it. I can understand why people might think that all these recalls require going back to the shop, that's how most legacy makers work to this day.

The solution being (supposedly) easy doesn't discount the severity of the issue. Owners must be informed and aware.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#586

Post by buffington »

tsgagnon wrote: post #321
buildbot wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It involves a safety system! That needs to be tracked publicly and updated! Nothing more than an OTA - does not mean much when everything is fly by wire and a bug could mean your car does not stop accelerating or something.

Why? It involves a safety system! That needs to be tracked publicly and updated! Nothing more than an OTA - does not mean much when everything is fly by wire and a bug could mean your car does not stop accelerating or something. True, but by announcing things in this fashion it is making Tesla look bad. Regulations really need to be updated so that car makers can hide this type of problem from customers as easily as…

> announcing things in this fashion it is making Tesla look bad.

I almost didn't catch the sarcasm of this comment, but there are other comments in this thread that are saying basically the same thing, but actually meaning it. It defies logic.

People seem to think that the government is being mean, and singling out Tesla, and being nasty using the word "recall." A recall is a legal process. The word means something very specific, and when a company issues a recall, they do so because they don't want to be sued.

It's almost like complaining about the word "divorce" or "audit" or "deposition" or other similar words that describe a legal process. The words used mean something specific. Tesla is conducting a legal process, and there's a very specific word for that process, and it means something. It's a recall.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#588

Post by brewdad »

buffington wrote: post #547
zitterbewegung wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should probably go beyond the verbiage of recall but right now since it is removing a feature I think that recall is appropriate. A better verbiage might be safety reversion .

The use of the word "recall" isn't because someone just felt like using it. It's an official legal process, followed to limit the manufacturer's liability. Whether it's a "good" word or "bad" word is irrelevant. It describes a very rigid and official legal process.

Exactly. I had a "recall" at one point where the manufacturer had a typo on a label in the engine compartment. The fix entailed receiving a new sticker in the mail and applying it over the old one. To this day, I can look up my vehicle on the NTSB site and see that that sticker was delivered to me.

If I had chosen not to actually apply it, the dealer would have been expected to do so the next time my car was in for service.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#589

Post by 93po »

justapassenger wrote: post #414
whamlastxmas wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person above you has no idea what they’re talking about. There’s literally hundreds of people at Tesla whose job is QA and tools to support QA

And how does that change anything about my statements? Yeah, they have QA. But for the problem they claim they’re solving (robotaxis) and speed of pushing stuff to customers (on the order of days) it vastly, vastly insufficient. And it lacks any safety lifecycle process regards - again, just look at the timelines. Even if you’re super efficient, you cannot possibly claim you can even such a basic things like proper c…

> it lacks any safety lifecycle process

completely demonstrably false

> speed of pushing stuff to customers (on the order of days)

this is also false and doesn't happen

> you cannot possibly claim you can even such a basic things like proper change management (no, commit message isn’t that) or validation.

you know absolutely nothing about the internal timelines of developments and deployments at tesla and to suggest it's impossible without that knowledge is just dishonest

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#590

Post by bigtex88 »

pbreit wrote: post #564
bigtex88 wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in a strange world. No one should worship that sad narcissistic piece of crap but yet the sycophants continue to multiply.

Arguably the greatest entrepreneur in history. Is that worthy of some praise?

Ooh I can argue against that! I mean, he's clearly not. He's more of a fantastically savvy investor than anything else. The man clearly does not run any of his companies because it's impossible to run 3 companies at once. Don't let him fool you. It is IMPOSSIBLE.

There are clearly far FAR better entrepreneurs in history but if you keep fellating him I'm sure Daddy Elon will love you one day. You got this, don't give up!

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