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Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

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Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#581

Post by hessp »

pronlover723 wrote: post #11

#1 it's lonely? April 2020, 1 month into the pandemic. I found the pandemic lonely. I saw less than 1 person a month for the first 14 months of the pandemic. And i find WFH incredibly lonely. I haven't recovered. I'm utterly alone most weeks. I see no one. Even if I go to work, no one is there. I moved cities a year ago and have only 1 friend and 2 acquaintances in the new city. 2 of those 3 are married and I see the…

My circle of friends shrunk some during the pandemic and after the vaccines came out I put a lot of effort into building it up (larger than before). Some data in case helpful:

Friends made over 1 year, 3 months:

Meetup - 1 friend. Had a poor time-to-friend ratio for what I put in, but that's an n=1 and I mostly frequented just one meetup, although I tried like 3. Negative experience overall (for me, ymmv). Friend is great.

Local discord group around a hobby of interest - 2 friends. Many friendly acquaintances. Had to find the right group as a few I tried didn't feel like as-good fits. Positive experience, the friend making process was enjoyable and the friends are great.

Meeting at an intro class for another hobby (a semi social one - need at least one partner) - 2 friends. We were all new at the intro class and it was hard to find people, so we swapped numbers. Got to know each other through the hobby then became friends. Probably would be difficult to replicate intentionally.

Friends of Friends - 1 large group. 5 that I'd call friends and several more that I'd call group-friends or friendly acquaintances.

Friends of Friends are exponential. There's an excellent time to friend ratio, and the people you meet come pre-vetted. But note that some friends may be hesitant to make inter-friend connections even after they know you well, depending on how closed-off their other groups are. It's, of course, also not generally accessible until you have enough of a circle that like/trust you enough that you're getting invites to their other group things.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#582

Post by tete »

jpmoral wrote: post #522
avianlyric wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We needed another SRE, so we hired his best friend. Well there was your mistake. You should have hired the best SRE he knows, not his best friend. I’m good friends with many software engineers, but the strength of our friendship has no correlation with their engineering capabilities.

I think the point is that they were brought on on the strength of the first person's recommendation, not because they were the best friend.

I agree. There is different mindsets though. If someone was my best friend, I would not recommend them because of that, if they were a bad fit. That would be unfair to both the employer and the friend.

Not sure why anybody would do that. Even for inexperienced people or people that need more guidance in general there's usually spots, just in other other companies.

Companies still hire people that chose the completely wrong career and fields. And in many companies there is demand for them for all sorts of reasons. Worst case they have to do shitty jobs, nobody else wants to do.

With the current lay-offs I think it's mostly the result of "hire everyone" during covid.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#583

Post by kortilla »

jacquesm wrote: post #556
kortilla wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying about being arrested is a quick way to get fired when the background check comes through. Your antisocial suggestion has now escalated from something you could have preemptively explained into termination of employment. Nicely done.

If a background check is done there is no point in asking. And arrest records are confidential unless they resulted in a conviction.

Of course there is a point in asking, to find out. The background check is verification.

Did you know that employers frequently ask for your employment history in the form of a resume, but then they’ll contact one or two recent employers to confirm you were employed?

Trust, but verify. It’s a leaky but effective check against con artists.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#584

Post by amusedcyclist »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #145
martythemaniak wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a widely shared opinion here, but this process will make you a better engineer. Keep at it.

Memorizing decks of leetcode problems improved your engineering skills?

Who said anything about memorizing

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#585

Post by amusedcyclist »

tom-_- wrote: post #568
iLoveOncall wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a long story to hide the fact that by refusing to do LeetCode interviews you were not offered a software engineering position. You most likely are an SA, which is a position open even to business degree holders and is barely technical, no wonder you didn't have to LeetCode.

You seem to be implying "software engineers" require much more than a business degree, in which case I believe you to be a young person ( SWE is not a profession that requires deep education in math and science, like a physicist or neurologist. Having anything beyond a bachelor's in CS is not worthwhile outside of maybe ML..maybe. A person with business degree who grinds toy problems on LC will almost always do bette…

Yes, SWE's require Computer Science, if you don't think so you've never done any real SWE work. Business majors do not teach you the problem solving ability required for even basic SWE work.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#586

Post by anon50118810 »

bumby wrote: post #580
anon50118810 wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm referring to class as a person's conception of themselves, and others' conception of them, as someone who can live the life they're living and can expect to continue living that life. Losing this doesn't just mean the loss of some sort of social authority, of having an impressive job title at parties, but also and more importantly it can mean almost everything in that person's life changing for the worse, indefin…

By that same measure, anyone who lives in a lower socio-economic class would have a lower sense of well-being. This is true for people with extrinsic work orientation, but not to those with intrinsic orientation. Again, a lot of it comes down to one's relationship with work.

People who are forced to receive worse medical care, for example because they can't afford necessary medicine anymore, are tangibly worse off than they were before. It's not a sign of an unhealthy relationship with work if someone is upset at not being able to buy medicine. Framing it that way is unhelpful.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#588

Post by ThePadawan »

jacquesm wrote: post #34
ThePadawan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in similar shoes to the author here, and am glad to hear you show some understanding for this. I interviewed with a quite promising company beginning of December, only to immediately get the written feedback (after the first call) of "Well I know a lot of SWE in this town and none of them are struggling to find a job - so if you've been looking for X months, surely there's something wrong with you - and anyway, w…

This sort of thing is pretty common. It happens in both directions, if you're employed job offers line up, if you're available there must be something wrong with you. Highly frustrating. A couple of takeaways: unemployed < freelancers < has a job < has a prestigious job. So if possible and you're on the job market at least fill the time freelancing so you don't end up with the 'unemployed' status because hiring manag…

Thank you for the well wishes and a happy new year!

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#589

Post by senbrow »

Nihilartikel wrote: post #559
senbrow wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10000%. The most hated guy at my old job would start every request with an elaborate hand-wrung introduction to make sure no one could possibly be offended by what he was asking for. Because of this, everyone had to read one or two paragraphs of niceties before they had any idea what he actually needed. It was incredibly annoying and actually quite selfish in practice since it wasted so much time.

A good manager would have broached the subject with the employee and gently moved them in the direction of adjustment and likely some therapy. That sort of people pleasing behavior can easily come from a past where asserting even a minor need or boundary was met with abuse from caretakers or peers. Not saying it's not maladaptive and irritating behavior. It is! But they probably came by it honestly.

I totally agree; unfortunately he was a contractor hired through an agency, which meant his management resources were poorly defined and somewhat diffuse across the two companies' reporting chains.

I'd imagine if he was strictly an FTE he would have been getting that guidance and support, but I guess the politics of trying to do so across company boundaries made it too much of a career risk for the "manager" he was assigned from my company.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#590

Post by tom-_- »

amusedcyclist wrote: post #585
tom-_- wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be implying "software engineers" require much more than a business degree, in which case I believe you to be a young person ( SWE is not a profession that requires deep education in math and science, like a physicist or neurologist. Having anything beyond a bachelor's in CS is not worthwhile outside of maybe ML..maybe. A person with business degree who grinds toy problems on LC will almost always do bette…

Yes, SWE's require Computer Science, if you don't think so you've never done any real SWE work. Business majors do not teach you the problem solving ability required for even basic SWE work.

CS fundamentals can be readily learned without obtaining a degree. If you don't think so, then you've never met a self-taught programmer and are probably (no offense) someone with limited professional experience.
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