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Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

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Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#581

Post by mint2 »

DoneWithAllThat wrote: post #181
tchaffee wrote: post #132

Here's a good place to compare to other cities, if comparing is even a reasonable thing to do [1]. Sort by Total for Property Crime. Notably Albuquerque, Spokane, and Memphis have higher total property crime rates. But perhaps wouldn't make such an interesting headline for those in tech. Also notable that Orlando, FL is high on the list. But Irvine, CA and Tampa, FL are at the bottom of the list. Please also read the…

Interesting facts about Irvine: It’s owned entirely by one of the largest (maybe the largest) real estate company in the US, The Irvine Company. They also have a heavy presence in Sunnyvale CA. Irvine buildings and neighborhoods - all of them - are built intentionally to be anti-crime. Things like alleys and dark corners are virtually non-existent.

To many, Irvine is also soulless, sterile and feels like living in an office park. Hence moving to SF.

Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#582

Post by jacobolus »

jacobolus wrote: post #574
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't crack down on free subway rides, next they'll be taking free books from the libraries, helping themselves to health checkups or worse expecting police to investigate their petty crime reports at no expense. And who ends up paying for all that? That's right, the taxpayer.

I think you’re trying to make a joke, but it’s hard to tell for sure (Poe's law strikes again). Your comment seems like a parody of those “you wouldn’t steal a car” PSA ads trying to discourage copyright infringement. In case you are serious... Fare evasion vs. stealing library books are clearly categorically different. Routine health checkups should be free for everyone; the US profit-focused healthcare system is to…

Oh whoops, I totally misread the library book part. Okay, unquestionably a joke. Nevermind my response.

Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#583

Post by cudgy »

vkou wrote: post #544
cudgy wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you can show them how it’s done? Sounds like you have a great deal of experience.

Yes, that's the sure fire way to reform an organization that's corrupted by the external incentives that it operates in, and that punishes and drives out decent people joining it. Don't like the homeless camp in the park near you? Have you tried pitching your tent there, and reforming it? Don't like Russia getting truculent? Go there and fix it. Don't like Amazon behaving unethically? Join it as a janitor and fix it…

Seems reasonable to expect someone to have at least some experience in an area before laying down strong criticisms and suggestions for how it needs to be overhauled. Otherwise, yes, it is a futile, speculative conversation.

Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#584

Post by majewsky »

galangalalgol wrote: post #290
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reading this headline I thought to myself, this can't be possible. But then I remembered It's funny, this is exactly what happens when I talk to my SF friends about crime. They have an immediate defensive reaction to insist it's not that bad, but then they slowly start recalling various crime experiences they've had in the past year . It's as if the constant background level of crime has reset their expectations of…

My response was "only half?". Seriously, isn't this true everywhere? I've jad things stolen in small towns and in big cities that are "tough on crime" and have citizens that vote for that. Theft is just part of life right? If I've just lived in bad places, where would one suggest that most people don't experience theft?

> where would one suggest that most people don't experience theft?

I live in Germany. The only time I ever had something stolen was at age 9, by a classmate who was shortly thereafter diagnosed as a cleptomaniac and who received therapy to deal with it.

Generally speaking, thefts do happen here, too. But if theft is of particular concern for you, it's not all that hard to significantly reduce your chances. Pick an apartment that's not on the ground floor, so people cannot get in through the windows. Put your wallet in a pocket that can be closed with a zipper, and pickpockets won't bother with you. Armed robberies are just not a thing because of gun control laws. Sure, there are a few ones across the entire country every year, but it's rare enough to make the news every time.

Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#585

Post by origin_path »

tchaffee wrote: post #512
cjwilliams wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but they dont allow open drug scenes. And they dont allow the rampant theft and dysfunction that comes with those encampments

That's not right. It's not that they don't allow open drug scenes. In Lisbon you can easily find the part of town where everyone is smoking weed outside. With Switzerland if you want your free heroin it's at the doctor's office and you get it injected there. So it's not a matter of not allowing it. Addicts not surprisingly go where the drugs are. Which is inside now. Back when they treated it as a crime problem they…

Not quite - the Swiss system much prefers substitutions than giving out actual heroin. And the police do enforce drug laws, mostly against the dealer networks but also against individuals for possession for other drugs. Also it's not like heroin is legalized. You must have been an addict for at least two years to get it from the health system, and it's a last resort, you must have failed at least two other addiction treatments first.

The Swiss approach was also somewhat specific to heroin. If you read about it, it's always heroin that's being discussed. The policy could work because there aren't huge numbers of addicts and the number has been in natural decline for a long time. Addicts are mostly old so the population is shrinking, the cost of giving them free drugs is low. Heroin addiction was a phase, people moved onto different drugs now, but the decline is often attributed entirely to this policy.

So what do we see if we look at e.g. crystal meth or cocaine? Not so successful there. Swiss cities dominate cocaine consumption in Europe:

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/society/drug-use_why-swiss-citi...

Numbers of addicts are growing and the police do enforce the law, albeit in Neuchâtel for the first meth offense (of possession) you can get out of it if you attend some counselling sessions. After that it's back to prosecution.

https://www.thelocal.ch/20161003/neuchtel-dubbed-crystal-met...

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/society/crystal-meth_power-cut-...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/05/swiss-police-s...

They aren't handing out crystal meth, suffice it to say.

There is also the ethical issues involved with forcing people who stayed clean to pay for other people's addictions, which is what this boils down to. Of course it can still be rational when considering other costs but that doesn't change the underlying ethical issues.

Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#586

Post by fho »

neilv wrote: post #428
chaboud wrote: post #351

I had a car broken into this last weekend. They broke into every rental car in the lot (by the ferry building). A police officer was rolling through, telling people not to leave anything visible in their cars (nothing was visible in mine). I asked him if I could file a report, and he told me I would have to go to the station. He told me he wasn't sticking around and refused to take a report. I had a similar experienc…

> I had a dispatcher refuse to send an officer for a theft crew that I'd stopped in the middle of breaking into a car before they waved a gun at me and drove at me and my son over the sidewalk. That encounter with the thieves sounds awful, and then being unable to get police help sounds doubly awful. I hope your son wasn't traumatized by it. FWIW, not all cities are like that. The couple times someone pulled a gun on…

> The couple times someone pulled a gun on me

As a German that sentence sounds so absurd. I am in my mid-30s and have never held a gun myself. The only weapons I saw in Germany were (holstered) guns on policemen.

Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#587

Post by x86x87 »

giantg2 wrote: post #432
x86x87 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true. But cops also do not get to decide what they investigate based on their own beliefs and biases.

"But cops also do not get to decide what they investigate based on their own beliefs and biases." Actually they do. It's called law enforcement discretion. They could watch you get murdered and have no legal responsibility to help you (they would likely be fired, but that's about it).

Nah. If you get to pick and choose you are no longer law enforcement. I get prioritization and I get that there are nuances and circumstances but if I break the law and nothing happens and another person breaks the law and they get in trouble, in the same setting, at the same time it's bullshit. Also, cops are not paid to make their own rules or decide which laws are good or bad. We have this entire branch that is responsible for creating/updating/deleting laws.

Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#588

Post by x86x87 »

rhino369 wrote: post #436
x86x87 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true. But cops also do not get to decide what they investigate based on their own beliefs and biases.

But they do get to decide what they investigate based on the DA's polices. It's a waste of everyone's time to investigate crimes that won't be charged regardless of evidence. The city affirmatively decided to decriminalize petty crime. Why would you blame the cops for that.

Imho this is about priorities not deciding to not enforce the law. If the cops have nothing to do and a law is broken they should invetigate. They don't get to sit on their buts complaining about the da

Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#589

Post by neilv »

fho wrote: post #586
neilv wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had a dispatcher refuse to send an officer for a theft crew that I'd stopped in the middle of breaking into a car before they waved a gun at me and drove at me and my son over the sidewalk. That encounter with the thieves sounds awful, and then being unable to get police help sounds doubly awful. I hope your son wasn't traumatized by it. FWIW, not all cities are like that. The couple times someone pulled a gun on…

> The couple times someone pulled a gun on me As a German that sentence sounds so absurd. I am in my mid-30s and have never held a gun myself. The only weapons I saw in Germany were (holstered) guns on policemen.

I think it's not normal in the US to have a gun pulled on you. But maybe not too unusual for a city person to have been mugged at gun or knife point, at least once.

The reason I've been mugged multiple times is that I used to walk many, many more hours late at night in cities than most US people do. (I also discouraged numerous opportunistic mugging approaches, before they happened.)

I've never held a gun. And I'd guess most US coastal city people almost never see guns in person, except like you describe. Despite the impression we get of the US from TV shows and movies, about half the US votes for the political party that says we need more restrictions on guns.

Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#590

Post by awillen »

dahfizz wrote: post #462
awillen wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does being screamed at by a homeless person that they're going to murder you count as being threatened? Actual question... I didn't really think they were seriously going to try to murder me (particularly since these were usually either when I was walking my large dog or in the very crowded FiDi). I live in San Diego now.

This was a regular occurrence for you?

Probably 3-4 times a year being screamed at. Not all threats of violence, sometimes just strings of profanity. One woman called my dog a fa**. Though she did also say she'd kill me.

Also called the cops twice on people shooting up in front of the middle school near my house in the morning while I was walking my dog. That wasn't even in the TL - that was Nob Hill.

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