What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft • Hacker News Board

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#581

Post by etchalon » Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 11:33 PM UTC

Manuel_D wrote: post #501

etchalon wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have objective evidence, through numerous studies, that just "being black" produces disadvantage during the hiring process, and data which shows the outcomes of that disadvantage in fairly straight-forward terms: https://hbr.org/2017/10/hiring-discrimination-against-black-... https://www.americanprogress.org/article/african-americans-f... The discrimination faced by Black Americans is because of their skin color,…

This would be a good case for anonymizing resumes in the interview process. I'm not sure why that wasn't considered over setting minimum representation requirements. An easy way to eliminate discrimination is to make it impossible to discriminate between protected classes.

Reducing everyone to a list of past experience and skills would produce knock-on effects such as preferring people with specific existing experience over talented beginners. And in an industry with an extensive, existing problem of discrimination you'd just be maintaining the status quo.

It's also essentially impossible to anonymize resumes in a way that would provide meaningful distinction between people.

Resume design, for instance, is a fairly strong signal for how a developer might think, or their personal attention to detail and craftsmanship.

You'd be amazed how often we don't even need to read a resume to tell whether someone worth interviewing.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#582

Post by freetime2 » Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 11:34 PM UTC

paxys wrote: post #32

It's telling that this person posted a job listing, interviewed dozens of candidates, realized they couldn't proceed because they hadn't interviewed any minority candidate, tried for months and were still unsuccessful at finding a single one , and the take away wasn't that they should fix their broken recruiting pipeline but that the corporate policy was what was wrong.

What part of the recruiting pipeline is broken? What would you suggest as a fix?

And what does "it's telling" mean? What do you think this tells us about the author?

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#583

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 11:35 PM UTC

topaz0 wrote: post #383

yucky wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They mention an increase of from 3% to 5% of membership of senior black leaders. So now instead of those 3% being seen as having earned their position, all 5% will be seen as having been given an unfair advantage. So now it's not only unfair to the people excluded based on skin color but it's unfair to those who benefitted strictly because of the perception they now have to deal with as having not really earned thei…

> all 5% will be seen as having been given an unfair advantage. Only by the kinds of people who tend to assume the worst about Black people.

[deleted]

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#584

Post by Georgelemental » Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 11:41 PM UTC

hintymad wrote: post #516

Dig1t wrote: post #382

I work at a different FAANG and it seems like more and more the only news that we get from corporate is related to DEI. Also a lot of hiring details are now hidden from ICs. It used to be that you would be apart of the interview panel as an interviewer and then you would get together with your team afterwards and everyone on the team would vote yes/no and that would pretty much be it. Now it’s made by a manager elsew…

I was wondering why the US is so obsessed with diversity alone the line of race and gender instead of social-economical status, education background, career background, and etc? If I'm developing a statistical model, wouldn't it make more sense if my diversity means having in my team people who have statistics background, people who study statistical physics, people who are great at maths, people who are great at bui…

It's because of the law. The civil rights legislation of the 1960s helped to destroy the evil of segregation. But the system that was once healthy and beneficial has now become a cancerous tumor that is metastasizing and infecting everything. https://richardhanania.substack.com/p/woke-institutions-is-j...

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#585

Post by busymom0 » Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 11:42 PM UTC

omginternets wrote: post #419

Dig1t wrote: post #382

I work at a different FAANG and it seems like more and more the only news that we get from corporate is related to DEI. Also a lot of hiring details are now hidden from ICs. It used to be that you would be apart of the interview panel as an interviewer and then you would get together with your team afterwards and everyone on the team would vote yes/no and that would pretty much be it. Now it’s made by a manager elsew…

Relatedly: I cannot defend the kind of "diversity" that would rather hire a rich brahmin than an inner-city American kid in need of a leg-up, just to fulfill some backwards skin-color quota. It's obscene, and insulting to all parties involved. I also worry that this nonsense will erode support for the kind of diversity I do defend, or worse, prompt some kind of revanchist backlash against visible minorities in genera…

Brown Indian immigrant here. I am part of a multi racial family and have nephews and nieces who are white and mixed race. I have family who is white and black while I am brown.

This “DIE” stuff is repulsive. Other than the obvious hiring of incompetent people simply to fill a quota, it also creates frictions in relationships when some job post hires one family member simply because they are brown or black while excluding their sibling simply because they are white. I can’t explain how disgusting these policies feel to me.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#586

Post by dekhn » Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 11:44 PM UTC

nyuszika7h wrote: post #446

tomp wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a nice way to excuse your racism. A lot of people use this perverted logic. But at the end of the day, it's still evil racism. Different "worlds" (neighbourhoods, schools, health care) doesn't happen because of skin color, it happens because of wealth/poverty. So if you apply a racist filter on top of the (implicit) wealth filter, you're just being racist against poor Asian & white people.

Quoted post unavailable.

I disagree; racism is racism regardless of the class situation of the target. A small number of people have promoted the idea that if a class is not systematically oppressed, it can't be a target of racism, but that's wrong. It was picked up by the mainstream press and promoted as an idea for a while, but it's wrong.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#587

Post by moistly » Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 11:46 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #365

rrradical wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Discrimination in selecting who to interview is absolutely a form of discrimination. Exactly. That's what the parent comment is saying. But they are thinking about the entire funnel, not just the end of it. By the time a slate of candidates reaches a company's hiring process, there has already been an immense selection bias against minority candidates. Two people growing up in different places (not different cities…

This is a nice way to excuse your racism. A lot of people use this perverted logic. But at the end of the day, it's still evil racism. Different "worlds" (neighbourhoods, schools, health care) doesn't happen because of skin color, it happens because of wealth/poverty. So if you apply a racist filter on top of the (implicit) wealth filter, you're just being racist against poor Asian & white people.

No post body was provided.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#588

Post by NautilusWave » Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 11:46 PM UTC

I think it's valiant for a company to strive to create diversity within the organization that's reflective of their locale, but it seems many are trying to simply hire people with certain combinations of demographics and qualifications that are rare or non-existent. A more far-sighted solution is required, where private industry starts investing in education (in an equity-focused manner) to create the diverse, qualified workforce that they need.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#589

Post by tanseydavid » Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 11:47 PM UTC

PKop wrote: post #481

Dig1t wrote: post #382

I work at a different FAANG and it seems like more and more the only news that we get from corporate is related to DEI. Also a lot of hiring details are now hidden from ICs. It used to be that you would be apart of the interview panel as an interviewer and then you would get together with your team afterwards and everyone on the team would vote yes/no and that would pretty much be it. Now it’s made by a manager elsew…

>We used to argue for equality, a level playing field, for all Think of how impossibly naive and utopian this is though, and I don't mean to personally attack just to condemn the idea this is possible in any way whatsoever. Is it possible economically? How about resource wise, or geographically can we all possess equal territory? How about military power? How about physical attributes such as height or beauty? How ab…

The idea is equality of opportunity.

Of course, it is not possible to implement this in any grand, all-encompassing, perfect manner. But that does not mean that it shouldn't be a goal.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#590

Post by Georgelemental » Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 11:47 PM UTC

Wokeness is first and foremost a legal phenomenon. You must check the box, because your manager must check the box, because the VP must check the box, because otherwise some regulator or lawyer might get angry and sue.

The civil rights legislation of the 1960s helped to destroy the evil of segregation, we should all be grateful for that. But the system that was once healthy and beneficial has now become a cancerous tumor that is metastasizing and infecting everything.

https://richardhanania.substack.com/i/36007039/wokeness-is-g...