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Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

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Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dealers brought it on themselves...many of them actively disincentivize EV purchases when you try to buy one. Why? They want to protect that recurring service bay revenue. Oil changes, plugs, belts, etc.

I am not saying this isn't true, but EV's have a set of maintenance requirements too - there are still a lot of mechanical parts - tires, suspensions, doors, etc. Not to mention electronic maintenance but I guess dealerships would have to re-train, re-certify, and re-tool technicians for that

Edit: I think I relied to the wrong comment on this sub-thread, but this still contributes, I think.

My spouse and I recently purchased an extremely difficult to find plug-in hybrid EV. We had placed a hold on a specific vehicle destined for delivery to the dealership a few months later. We paid a deposit and signed a receipt that made reference to that vehicle and was given the final price sheet for that specific vehicle at deposit time.

Two days before we were scheduled to pick it up (more than two months after we put the deposit down) the sales guy called and said that the dealership had instituted a new policy on the first of the month that no sales of that specific model and trim level would be authorized by the deal desk without an interior and exterior water resistant coating, and that the lowest price he could offer was an additional $2,500.

As you can imagine that did not stand up to scrutiny and we walked out of there with the vehicle at the total price recorded in the initial paperwork. They signed on the dotted line and never said a word about any new policies until we were ready to pick it up. They did this in a U.S. state where that practice is not legal.

You bet we told Toyota about that when they sent the survey.

If they weren’t making enough to meet their needs then they should have known that when they were negotiating.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#582
post #85
post #39

A lot has been said about the dealership model in the last few years, and the almost universal consensus is that it is an unnecessary and predatory industry and all auto makers should just sell cars directly like Tesla does. That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? What would we lose if we got rid of every dealership? If there is t…

>That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? the only thing I can think to say is that they are still a convenient repair facility, Tesla is fairly notorious for slow turn-around for repair.[0] I think a nice middle-ground would be the conversion of dealerships into showrooms/receiving-centers/repair facilities -- oust the sales porti…

I read a story on Reddit of a guy who was banned from CarMax and couldn't figure out why. He was told it was decided by corporate, and that was that.

https://old.reddit.com/r/carmax/comments/cx82v8/carmax_refus...

Kind of reminds me of stories of folks who need support with Google account issues - sometimes things like that just slip through the cracks. Google might have processes for typical cases, but if a weird corner case arises, it can be impossible to get someone to make an exception to help you.

I wonder if things would go the same way with centralized sales and repair processes ... "hey my new car is having this weird issue" ... "sorry the algorithm says everything is within spec, go away", rather than potentially being able to contact multiple independent dealership service departments until someone is able to reproduce/fix your issue.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#583

So, in other words, copy Tesla.

no... Tesla sells all their cars like this... Ford is just testing the waters

That fact that Tesla only sells EVs and has no dealer network seems obvious but if you think the clarification is needed this is fine.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#584
post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, the warranty exists regardless of where the car is serviced. I'm not sure if that's true for Ford, but this is in the owner's manual for the Nissan GT-R. > OBTAINING WARRANTY SERVICE > You must take the vehicle to an authorized Nissan GT-R Certified dealer in the United States or Canada during regular business hours at your expense in order to obtain warranty service. > WHAT IS NOT COVERED > Repairs performed b…

> WHAT IS NOT COVERED > Repairs performed by anyone other than a Nissan GT-R certified dealer. IANAL, but I don't think that clause is legal in the US. Any equipment originally covered by a warranty and still within the time/mileage limits of the warranty must still be covered unless Nissan can prove that the work done by an outside tech was the cause of failure.

They certainly try to enforce it via bureaucracy. My local Nissan dealer wouldn't even do an oil change on mine because they're not a GT-R certified dealer.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they provided value then states wouldn't have needed to enshrine their existence into law. I say let them compete with the manufacturer and see if "go to a showroom for a test drive, then click click click, buy, deliver to your home" wins Vs. "Spend an entire day haggling and avoiding all kinds of poor treatment/predatory practices." People HATE dealerships. They make a very fun purchase a very unfun purchase.

People hate dealers, love getting a car today . Dealers do what they do because it works, and it is largely what the consumer seems to prefer. You don't think dealers would do online fixed-price sales for pre-orders if it worked? They would! And they will, if the market rewards that. Very few people actually want to wait weeks or months for the car. HN doesn't believe that, because we're tilted towards Tesla fans who…

"Dealers do what they do because it works, and it is largely what the consumer seems to prefer."

Not likely due to consumer preference, as its a given that dealership and buying experience is often hated by the consumer. look at this thread, talk to friends,and search the internet. Sure its anecdotal but its appears to be pretty consistent across the board despite not being a scientific survey.

Heck even carmax created their business model around how the consumer hates the buying process and even though carmax often charges more in the $2.5K - $4K range than what you can negotiate elsewhere they are still around.

Its more that they (the dealership) has a very strong lobbying influence and have rigged the market in their favor where the consumer has to take it. Like making themselves a forced middleman.

kind of how comcast is often rated among its own customer at the top of the most hated company list year after year ,yet they stay in business.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... and they price match so you can walk out the door with the product instead of waiting. I would love to see the behind-the-scenes numbers crunched on that model. I don't see how that model works long-term unless the percentage of customers in the showroom walking out the door with online price-matched goods is a relatively small group, or they're successful up- and cross-selling on gonzo margin goods and service…

Another thing to consider beyond raw COGS is "attach rate": online price matching gets you in the door and buying the big ticket items, but once you are in the door how likely are you to also pick up accessories (especially if you are saving on the base item) or even unrelated things that you saw in the store while you were there?

BestBuy sells TVs so they can sell you overpriced cables while you're there.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would they sue them for?

Breaking the law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_dealerships_in_the_United_... > In the United States, direct manufacturer auto sales are prohibited in almost every state by franchise laws requiring that new cars be sold only by dealers.

Great, now I've got Judas Priest playing in my head.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude just wants to think that his haggling is putting them on top of all of us. When the CEO of Ford says he's spending 2k more than Tesla for delivery. We all lose, them included, but haggling makes them believe they're coming ahead.

They don’t realize the whole dealership setup is designed to make the haggler think he got a good deal. The industry is built around capturing people who think they’re pulling a fast one on the dealer.

Very true, but in recent times it has been much easier to try to pay a fair price. That is until covid hit where it became a sellers market. However it looks like we might have another 6more months before it switches back to a buyers market the way things are going.

For example when I want to buy a car: I start at Carmax which I know its the highest price i can pay for the car. In history I have always been able to get a used car for 2.5K -4K cheaper elsewhere .

This is typically how it goes.

1. I determine which make,model, year car I want.

2. Determine what carmax has it listed for and make that the highest overpriced value for the car.

3. I send out emails and call dealers for similar cars ( millage,model,wear , etc) give them my price that is under 2.5K - 4K less than carmax.

4. they say sure come on in.

5. The games begin and the bs runs from the salesman script that tries to convince me that a manufactured car in the 100Ks is a custom one of a kind vehicle that I will never be able to buy again.

6. i Say here is my price and the good cop salesman than sends me to the back to the sales manager who says I will put him out of business if he sells me that vehicle for that price.

7. I say I understand then I walk out and he lets me walk out.

8. A few days or even a month later he calls me back says he can do the deal then send me back to the sales manager again.

9. the Sales manager than says oh sorry we cant do that price because its a cash offer or that I have to use his preferred loan provider. Or tries to convince me to take his loan provider anyways and then cancel it by paying cash or refinance it a week later.

10. I walk out again or I get the car. One case I had to walk out again until I got another call to come back. In most cases I only waste about an hour in the dealership all together talking to the salesguy and manager, since when the send me to the back to the sales manager I typically tell them I have 15 minutes to make it happen or you can call me back when you have all the information you need to make the decision.

So atleast today we have the no haggle places now to tell us what is the ripoff price for the car and not the dealership sponsored bs MSRP or the kelly blue book crap.

The crazy thing is that I actually want to buy the car from carmax because I do like the experience better, but its not worth paying 2.5K to 4K more for an equivalent car.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just for reference, I've had a Honda Fit for 13 years, and the only maintainance I've had done over what you no doubt had to do on your TM3 (tires, wiper blades) has been oil changes. The car has 164k miles on it. I'm not saying the EV's are not theoretically more durable and (much) less maintainance-intensive. I am saying that the best of the best ICE vehicles are not as different as your observation about your own…

You're supposed to do more maintenance than that on your Honda Fit, such as spark plugs every 30k. Granted, it isn't much compared to other ICE cars, but you're downplaying the difference. Your car also has parts that frequently break on all ICE cars, such as a water pump, which simply don't exist on BEV cars. https://www.normreeveshuntingtonbeach.com/honda-fit-maintena...

I have a Volkswagen BEV(an e-Up) and it absolutely has a water pump - it pumps coolant around the charger.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#590
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is little reason to think moving to direct sales will help anyone local, is there? I'm now convinced it is a bad idea. But I don't see it being good for local at all.

The manufacturer can set the invoice price at whatever they want already. Dealerships are only negotiating their piece of the pie, they aren't actually able to alter the core price of the vehicle. The market/competition determines what a manufacturer charges, the dealerships just obfuscate the exact figure. So I agree with the other commentor, they exist to extract local money, to make a few locals rich, the manufact…

Sales margins are low. Service is the big money maker, and if you buy a new car you don’t want to void the warranty.

Making money on the back through financing or upsells is normal.

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