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The Coming Food Catastrophe

economist.com

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Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#581

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

Guthur wrote: post #530
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

explain to you because you do not know, and wish to learn, and thus you are asking in good faith? or "explain", as in you think the majority of countries are not united in opposition to russia, and you would like to advance this claim? I want to be clear here, I am all for sharing knowledge, so if you need an explanation because you don't know, and don't just plan to argue, please say so and I will share all I can, w…

So you have no interest in explaining to me how EU countries (Germany etc) paying Russia for energy helps Ukraine? I'm quite serious, I don't know how paying Russia helps Ukraine, or are they not paying for energy? maybe I am ill informed. And please don't come back with misdirection, either answer the question or lets leave it like that because it's a waste of both our time.

sure, I have interest, IF you are able to say you are asking because you don't know and want to learn, not because you want to argue

this is not misdirection, it's giving you the opportunity to show your questions are being asked _in_good_faith_, because I don't see a point to answering a bad faith question

you've had two opportunities to do so, and both times chosen not to simply say that your objective is learning, rather than arguing. instead, you extremely conspicuously chose to deflect from such a clarification

in my experience, when someone is hiding and actively avoiding clarifying their objective in a discussion, it is because their objective in the discussion is not clarity.

tl;dr: you say you want an answer to your question, but if you think you already know the answer, then your question doesn't need another one,

and if you DON'T think you already know, it should be easy for you to just say that, and that you don't intend to argue with whoever would teach you the answer

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#582

Post by anjel »

kazinator wrote: post #285
Gordonjcp wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3. If you can figure out how to eat grass, you'll be rich.

Surely, we must know how to do this. I mean, we know how grass-eating ruminants break down the cellulose to obtain energy with various enzymes and whatnot. We could probably invent some kind of exo-stomach to pre-digest grass into an edible state. :)

soylent green, perhaps?

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#583

Post by jimmaswell »

einpoklum wrote: post #537
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this seems like nebulous FUD that attempts to downplay that one of the actors here is literally engaging in a genocide will the world (NOT the U.S., as the opposition to Russia's genocidal war is global) accrue enough countries out of 200 or so which engage in genocidal invasions of conquest of their neighbors in the 21st century? sounds implausible

> is literally engaging in a genocide You know, the US (and people who drink its kool-aid) has been leveling several such false accusations lately, another one being about the Chinese treatment of the Uyghurs. As a person whose family was decimated by genocide I'll tell you that it's quite insulting on the personal level; but beyond this - that kind of rhetoric has a "boy who cried wolf effect", and that's really bad…

Are you implying the Uyghur situation isn't real?

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#584

Post by dreamcompiler »

bobthepanda wrote: post #478
dreamcompiler wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side note: This gauge difference worked in Ukraine's favor in one respect. Russia's military logistics infrastructure is heavily train-based, but Russia's trains had to stop at the Ukrainian border because of the gauge difference. This meant they had to switch to trucks which are old and unreliable and they got bogged down in mud, which meant they had to stick to roads where they were easy for the Ukrainians to attac…

Ukranian and Russian railway gauge are the same, 1520mm. It is EU that is different with 1435mm.

I read an article early in the war that specifically stated the opposite, but apparently it was wrong and now of course I can't find it. You're correct.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#585

Post by OrvalWintermute »

pvg wrote: post #495
OrvalWintermute wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please keep that sort of slur off HN. We don't need it here, and you don't need it to make your substantive points. I think that may be an overly heated response. Given that I have seen the term used as a pronoun applied to multiple genders, sex preferences, races, ethnicities, etc, I see the term as speaking to behaviors, rather than being a pejorative unique to a group. Here are good examples of it being applied…

'internet forum aspiring to curious conversation' and 'youtube videos making fun of people's public meltdowns' have different standards and HN's are pretty well documented.

> HN's are pretty well documented.

Au contraire.

The word Karen reaching a tipping point in public awareness associated with the Gamestop incident I already pointed out. Many of us have seen it. We're aware of it, we know about it. And we know it is potent, otherwise it wouldn't be on the chopping block for redefinition. And forever, when I think of the word Karen, I think of that particular incident.

The word in that sense, has a great deal of similarity with a tiny little phrase, of a mere two words.

Mission Accomplished.

Whether tearful, premature, ironic, deceptive, tragic, or an example of great hubris, many of us living will forever associate those two words with George W. Bush on the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln, and the incalculable human suffering of an unpopular war. The friends we lost after that, and military adventurism run amok. The missing Weapons of Mass Destruction. So much is wrapped up in those two words. And forever, when I think of the phrase Mission Accomplished, I think of that particular speech.

Please do not tell me that HN is going to redefine a word for me, whether it is Karen, or Mission Accomplished, or some other phrase.

We don't need civilized pejoratives that are completely decent for dinner table talk to be conflated with uncivilized utterances not fit for the written or spoken word.

Dang should not become a speech dictator.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#586

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

haerra wrote: post #534
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the people that got "us" into this mess are the ones who initiated a genocidal war of territorial conquest in modern times (after repeatedly lying that they would) not coincidentally, they are also the only ones who can get "us" out of it, by withdrawing – the Ukrainian people have seen the rape, torture, and executions that result from allowing genocidal russian troops to control a single square foot of Ukrainian la…

As a side note, I find the language you are using strange. I do not know if it's my perspective of the world being different than yours, but I'll try to explain. In my perspective, genocide is a very, very strong word. Hitler killed 6 million Jews, as he literally wanted them exterminated. Now, crime is a crime, none should be defended nor downsized. But the primary goal behind that genocide was extermination. Do you…

Yes, russia is engaged in many actions that make clear that they are perpetrating a genocide, such as:

- literally saying Ukraine should not exist

- saying Ukrainians aren't a real people, just russians

- planning to solve "The Ukraine Question" (yes, phrased by the Kremlin just as another dictator phrased "The Jewish Question")

- planning to end Ukraine as a country and split up the land between themselves and other countries (maps have even been found among russian forces in Ukraine illustrating this)

- mass executions to rid Ukrainian land of Ukrainians (see Bucha for just 1 example)

- mass shelling of civilian targets (homes, etc.) in cities to rid Ukrainian land of Ukrainians

- destroying and stealing grain from Ukraine to starve Ukrainians (russia has a history of doing this in Ukraine, see: Holodomor)

- refusing and attacking international food aid, mefical aid, and rescue to Ukrainian civilians

- announcing Ukrainians who fled the fighting will have their property and homes given to pro-russian fighters in territory russia controls

- shooting and shelling civilians who try to evacuate

- sending Ukrainians in areas russia controls to "filtration camps" where those who show support for Ukraine are executed or forcibly deported to russia or russian controlled land

- destroying Ukrainian cultural landmarks

- forcing Ukrainians in russian controlled territory to not speak Ukrainian

the list goes longer, but russia has not at all tried to hide it, simply watch what the state propagandists and putin himself say and have said of Ukraine as a sovereign state

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#587

Post by antifa »

causality0 wrote: post #380
tmaly wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am surprised there are not more calls to end the corn to ethanol subsidies given the cost of food.

Take some time one day to read about the absolutely batshit insane world of agricultural subsidies. The market is more twisted than you can imagine.

On one hand, food subsidies is a pillar to national food security. On the other hand, ending beef subsidies would do wonders for my vegan socialist agenda.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#588

Post by antifa »

jimmaswell wrote: post #583
einpoklum wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is literally engaging in a genocide You know, the US (and people who drink its kool-aid) has been leveling several such false accusations lately, another one being about the Chinese treatment of the Uyghurs. As a person whose family was decimated by genocide I'll tell you that it's quite insulting on the personal level; but beyond this - that kind of rhetoric has a "boy who cried wolf effect", and that's really bad…

Are you implying the Uyghur situation isn't real?

I prefer to let the dronies and tankies argue their pro NATO talking points vs pro China talking points without my involvement. Most of us will have too much trouble wading through multiple state propaganda outlets to arrive at a reliable conclusion on that one.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#589

Post by [deleted] »

Ekaros wrote: post #536
im3w1l wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grass-fed cows use more land and water than grain-fed cows. So no.

On other hand they can be grown where there is enough land and enough water... Just because parts of the world has lack of water doesn't mean there is lack everywhere. In many parts there is even enough rain.

[deleted]

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#590

Post by pvg »

OrvalWintermute wrote: post #585
pvg wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'internet forum aspiring to curious conversation' and 'youtube videos making fun of people's public meltdowns' have different standards and HN's are pretty well documented.

> HN's are pretty well documented. Au contraire. The word Karen reaching a tipping point in public awareness associated with the Gamestop incident I already pointed out. Many of us have seen it. We're aware of it, we know about it. And we know it is potent, otherwise it wouldn't be on the chopping block for redefinition. And forever, when I think of the word Karen, I think of that particular incident. The word in tha…

To say 'Au contraire' you have to provide some sort of meaningful counter-argument. You have 'comedy' youtube videos, oddly overwrought bombast ('dictator', 'agenda') and something about a completely different phrase which, unlike 'Karen', is not intended as an insult.

Directing tropey slurs at people is mostly not ok on HN and it's been moderated like that for ages.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

It's not super-complicated.

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