This is the way. Go somewhere that allows you the flexibility you need.
Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work
581–590 of 734 posts
Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work
#582Warning: Hot Take. I genuinely believe many people who prefer working in an office versus at home have unfulfilling social lives or bad home lives. The social dynamics, competition, in physical offices fills the void in their lives. Also seems like most of the people clamoring for a return to the office are also climbers & middle managers. For some work a physical presence is required not just preferable, but for mos…
I definitely fall into this camp. I’m introverted, so the forced social interaction at work was perfect for me and sufficient to keep me socially gratified. I’ve tried to make up for it in the pandemic by being more socially active but it hasn’t been working. I’ll definitely be looking for an in-office position soon since some companies are returning. I think my mental health will greatly recover.
Forcing yourself to get your social interaction requirements met at work isn't ideal.
It is like trying to get your protein requirements met from potatoes. Yes, you can if you force yourself and try really hard. However, it is much more efficient and pain-free to get it from a protein shake.
In this context, it means using the time you save with working from home and using it to meet people interested in the things you care about.
Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work
#583Warning: Hot Take. I genuinely believe many people who prefer working in an office versus at home have unfulfilling social lives or bad home lives. The social dynamics, competition, in physical offices fills the void in their lives. Also seems like most of the people clamoring for a return to the office are also climbers & middle managers. For some work a physical presence is required not just preferable, but for mos…
It's not about the office, it's about the commuting, which can often increase the length of the working day by 25% or more, and can add a thoroughly miserable start and end to that day (stuck in traffic, or on delayed/overcrowded trains), and make life seem much worse even if you're doing enjoyable work with great people in a really nice office. Offices have their pros and cons (WFH can be a horribly lonely experienc…
For me it’s both. I love having control over my work environment and equipment.
Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work
#584Warning: Hot Take. I genuinely believe many people who prefer working in an office versus at home have unfulfilling social lives or bad home lives. The social dynamics, competition, in physical offices fills the void in their lives. Also seems like most of the people clamoring for a return to the office are also climbers & middle managers. For some work a physical presence is required not just preferable, but for mos…
> I genuinely believe many people who prefer working in an office versus at home have unfulfilling social lives or bad home lives.
Feels like you are mixing a lot of stuff together. My desire to interact with my collegues about our field of work has nothing to do with my social live outside of work.
It's not like I'm going to talk about new C# 11 features during our Sunday barbecue or at soccer practise. Of course I can go to a meetup or invite friends from tech to a pub, but that's not gonna replace 40 hours a week of "random interaction" with my colleagues. Maybe I'm just lucky and have great colleagues that are fun to interact with? Hard to say ...
Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work
#585Earlier quoted context omitted.
Remote fans force everyone to use tools to accommodate their remoteness. We used to have a stand-up meeting each morning at a time "when everyopne's arrived" and we used to have a whiteboard on the wall with the most current tasks. None of this can work with even one remote worker, so it's gone to scheduled Zooms, online task managers, and endless Slack messages.
In exchange, now you have proper record of everything said and done. I love the fact that I can always go back to Slack and say “See? This is what we agreed upon”, instead of having to recall the specifics of a meeting where notes weren’t taken in detail.
Much is still being said in person or calls, because talking is much more efficient than writing, so ... no, we don't "have proper record of everything said and done."
Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work
#586Some people are extremely sensitive to the issue of the remote work, like it is some kind of inalienable right, and any (perceived) threat to it makes them want to grab a pitchfork and proteat. I don't get it. Things are simple. The employer sets the terms, where you work and how the work is paid. The employee either accepts the terms or walks away. Sometimes the sides engage in negotiations, where the side with more…
Because actions have consequences and action at a scale sets norms. Considering he has the choice to walk away and is exercising it, it is sending the signal to the market that forcing people to return to office will have consequences. If he doesn't and everyone doesn't, it just kills the work-from-home momentum at large. In fact I am grateful to him for doing so because I am not in a position to do so myself but wou…
You will also likely reap not only the benefits of such actions, but also the consequences, because fully remote companies have little reason to choose employees living in a high cost places like Silicon Valley over remote developers from far cheaper places who will agree to work for 1/4 of the compensation paid to office workers.
Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work
#587Warning: Hot Take. I genuinely believe many people who prefer working in an office versus at home have unfulfilling social lives or bad home lives. The social dynamics, competition, in physical offices fills the void in their lives. Also seems like most of the people clamoring for a return to the office are also climbers & middle managers. For some work a physical presence is required not just preferable, but for mos…
I never understand this or any hot take related to WFH. Why is it necessary to assume something negative about another person simply because you’re different? It’s nonsense. It truly doesn’t matter. WFH can be great, working from the office can be great. Find a company where the social and work culture fit with what you prefer.
You really don't understand the incentive people have here?
It is the same as politics. The more polarized you can make things and the more you point out the flaws of the opposing perspective, the easier it is to influence public opinion.
In situations where policy needs to be determined, the decision made will benefit one side and harm the other side. In an ideal world, companies will allow employees to do whatever they want and pay them the same as long as they are productive.
However, companies want to actively reduce chaos and this means making consistent rules for everyone and measuring how this affects productivity in aggregate. So the rules become "fully remote" or "hybrid work" instead of allowing people to do what makes them optimally productive.
> Find a company where the social and work culture fit with what you prefer.
You say this presuming that people don't care about what they are working on or the prestige of the company they are working at. A lot of people have a fairly good setup and would rather influence their own company (or by proxy the industry at large) than simply move to a different potentially suboptimal company that allows remote work.
Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work
#588Earlier quoted context omitted.
My personal hot take: I genuinely believe many people who prefer working at home are very young and have not developed social awareness and/or don't feel the need to separate life and work, because their life is their work and vice versa. Most people that do not want to return to office are still in that phase of their life where they need to rebel to authority to feel alive and will end up being those "middle manage…
So, spending hours in a car instead of with my own kids is "mature". Spending the family income on cars and gas and paying an extra million for a house in order to make commuting even feasible is "mature". Destroying the environment, wasting precious resources and spewing out poisonous particles that enter the lungs and bloodstream of other human beings is "mature". And engaging in office maneuvering and chit-chattin…
> So, spending hours in a car instead of with my own kids is "mature".
I spend 15 minutes walking in a park.
Yes, spending hours in a car is not the best choice.
One should ask themselves why they chose to sign a contract with a company hours away by car in the first place.
If that isn't ok, why did you accept?
> instead of producing great value
I think you're giving yourself too much importance and too little to your co-workers who took a break.
That's immature, yes.
And not spending time in the same place will only reinforce the idea that someone is working to " create great value" while others are slacking at coffee machines stealing a salary and being unproductive, only that in the case of WFH it has become "they are home all day doing nothing. it's basically like being on holiday for them."
Which shouldn't be any employer concern, since they're not the ones paying their salaries (and it's probably very false)
In other words: why should WFH be considered more important than chit-chatting at work?
Aren't they two ways for people to enjoy their job more and maybe be more productive or more satisfied?
Why one should be better than the other?
Only because you personally benefit from it?
Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work
#589Warning: Hot Take. I genuinely believe many people who prefer working in an office versus at home have unfulfilling social lives or bad home lives. The social dynamics, competition, in physical offices fills the void in their lives. Also seems like most of the people clamoring for a return to the office are also climbers & middle managers. For some work a physical presence is required not just preferable, but for mos…
I kind of fall into this category, but it's a little more nuanced. I have a very fulfilling social life / hobbies outside of work, and have taken sabbaticals before to great success. WFH was great because I could exercise a lot more, hangout with friends, etc.
But I am excited to be back in office on some hybrid schedule, because there was a social component to work that I very much missed. I enjoyed the work part of the work the same, but missed the occasional coffee with a coworker, full-fledged in person brainstorming session, off hand conversations about zany ideas, lunch at the cafe, etc.
It's not that my social fulfillment declined at all overall with WFH -- other social activities filled the time -- but the specific social activity of bonding in person with folks I worked with definitely decreased, and it's nice to have that come back. That's not a reason to force folks back in the office (this is at no-one's expense, as I've seen it suggested), but it's a nice benefit.
Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work
#590Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Warning: Hot Take. I genuinely believe many people who prefer working in an office versus at home have unfulfilling social lives or bad home lives. The social dynamics, competition, in physical offices fills the void in their lives. Warning: Hot Take. I have similar logic, but reach an almost opposite conclusion. I genuinely believe many people who prefer working at home rather than an office have unfulfilling work…
This is unquestionably false for everyone I know including myself. 1. Many people already have built good relationships with their colleagues prior to WFH and talking to them over GVC helps the relationship. You are allowed to open up more when you know no one else is around except you and the person you're talking to 1:1. You don't have to be afraid that someone outside the meeting room or cubicle is going to hear y…
I think your post paints a false dichotomy. It's not always a choice between working from home and commuting huge distances to an office in a city you hate.
I live 10 minutes from the office and live in a town I love. This isn't luck - it's a choice I have made.
Also, please don't take this the wrong way, but some of your comments make it sound like you might be in the category of people who don't find it as easy as others to form relationships with colleagues in real life (Comments such as finding socialising events at work stressful, and about experiencing sexual tension if there is a worker of the opposite sex).