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IBM's Asshole Test

johnpublic.mataroa.blog

581–590 of 604 posts

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cursed out a taxi driver because he wasn’t careful enough loading the luggage But what if this taxi driver really did toss around the interviewee's expensive luggage, with his best interview clothes and perhaps some materials or documents for an important interview the next day? Does the taxi driver report back, yea he got upset, but it was my fault? What if the interviewee just got off a long flight, wants to rest…

What if the driver actually became a taxi driver so that he could embed himself into the company's hiring process, gave dozens of fair, yet informal candidate reviews, spent years gaining everyone's confidence, all specifically so that one day he could sabotage his arch nemesis' interview by lying and denying him a job! This subthread is really getting absurd. It's a perfectly good test to hear whether a candidate mi…

> This subthread is really getting absurd.

It's an urban legend, a tired old trope of "gotcha!" style human observation that today is commonly used on the bottom-of-the-barrel TV talk shows like Maury Povich. The "absurd" part is that despite the tons of comments here, you haven't realized that yet. Lol.

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#582
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm, I don't dig this. I don't think it's ethical to evaluate a candidate's interactions when they weren't informed they were being evaluated. People are stressed heading into an interview, and may be upset afterwards. Unless they're interviewing for a public-facing role, I don't see how this behavior is relevant to the job; and discussing it with a hiring committee invites all sorts of "cultural fit" biases that make…

It's understandable that people might be stressed or upset, but if they take it out on people they consider beneath them that's not a good sign.

I don't talk to taxi drivers in Sweden. It is very seldom you do.

Doesn't make me rude, just makes me normal.

Would I be an asshole according to US standards? Probably. Doesn't mean I am a shot person, just unaccustomed to new normal.

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

depends on where you live - growing up in New Zealand we don't have a tipping culture, servers will get to you, in your turn, try and demand service and you're cutting against a cultural grain, perceived to be trying to claim you're better, more important, than the other customers, or the server. I read somewhere that our "obnoxious American tourist" stereotype came from some time in the 60s when rich tourists starte…

Some time ago I spent a lot of time in youth hostels. A pattern I noticed was that people from all different cultures were polite and considerate until the number of people in the immediate group whom they considered allies in some way crossed some threshold at which point they became jerks, disregarding rules and politeness and generally acting as though they were the only real people there. I was in Europe, so most…

I doubt your explanation. Mine is that individuals who tend to travel in groups are more likely to be uncivil.

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#584

Sounds more like a way to make sure to hire meek submissives who won't question the way things are normally done. There was a reason Apple's entire marketing strategy in the 80s took aim directly at IBM.

Questioning, and by extension confronting is not being an asshole. Assertive communication is the topic that deals with this.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. If confronting isn't being an asshole, then what is this test supposed to measure?

The original post doesn't explain who's considered an asshole at the end of the test. In fact, the whole point is that the test is opaque - the assholes are whoever someone at IBM subjectively doesn't want to hire. So who passes or fails the whiteboard test, and why? If it was as simple as "whoever takes over the dry-erase marker from the first person is an asshole", then they'd be ridding themselves of anyone who questioned authority. Therefore, what's the difference between this and any other test which tried to bar entry to anyone who'd introduce new ideas to a stagnant corporate culture?

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there an easy and objective way to tell the difference? Better question, does it matter? As you said, bad hires are expensive. We aren't talking about language barriers here, we're talking about behavior that comes across as (your words) capital A asshole. If the person is going to behave that way on the job and it drags the team down, does it matter why they behave that way? I know I wouldn't want to be stuck w…

Who is an "asshole" depends a lot on perception though. One thing which noduerme said in their comment [0] struck me: > It also goes to the WASP distaste or disdain for the Jewish style of discourse. Historically, someone at IBM saying a candidate was brusque could quite easy be code for saying they were Jewish. I have the kind of personality which likes facts, details, debate, argument, pedantry, technicalities, obs…

This is such a well-written response. It combines a real understanding of people

>> In hindsight, I try to see things from her point of view – she's probably never read any legislation in her life

with a real understanding of yourself

>> I know some people sometimes perceive personalities like mine as "rude" – possibly even "assholes".

And an understanding of the friction...

>> the thought that most other people aren't like me isn't the first thought that pops into my head yet it is full of love and care for another person.

Thank you for taking the time to write this in response to my post.

I don't believe we have to classify ourselves as autistic just because we like "facts, debate, argument, pedantry, technicalities..." in fact, my entire culture thrives on exactly these things and it's been fairly successful if you consider surviving mass genocide for thousands of years, and surviving current hatred for our existence right here and now, to be a form of success. I just had a long conversation with my girlfriend tonight about this. She left an extremely repressive evangelical home in Texas at 17, moved to Chicago and ended up knowing a lot of Jewish people, but her mind works the same way. She said it's what you learn, and I said no, it's a kind of formatting. It changes how you learn and what you learn. It apportions different spaces and relationships on the hard drive. It's not a religion, to me, I'm an atheist. It's a type of questioning, seeking, which is consistently going to be offensive to people who want to defend the status quo. And - skissane - you're a mensch, because you didn't want your wife to be hurt and you asked yourself if you'd put her through unnecessary stress. It's gotta be coupled with an understanding of people's limitations and making them feel OK. That's why I said you have to know what culture you're dealing with. What I'm describing here isn't "Judaism", and very religious Jews would likely disagree because they're hardliners. It's the liberal western freedom-loving offspring of a very old religion that argues constantly but looks for accord, and humanity. I find the same tolerance, forbearance and questioning mentality in Sikhs, Druze, and Irish Catholics, all people who are too jaded to take religion literally, who also (1) loved debating the written word, (2) have been seeds of rebellion, and (3) borne the brunt of genocidal oppression. A very specific cocktail. But you can find it here and there in the rebels in every culture. The only one which elevates tendentiousness to the highest form of merit is Judaism, by a process of elimination.

Anyway, I've lived in Australia (not rude by American standards), and Argentina (assholes, but I love 'em), and have family in Israel (just completely uncontrollable, uncouth, wildly rude like Italians or Spaniards, where I also lived) - in the grand scheme of things, all these places respect intellect. Places which don't respect intellect, per se, but prefer submission, are like Thailand. I love Thai people, don't get me wrong. But they are in fear of their hierarchy, and gripe about their place in the world. Go over to Vietnam and everyone thinks freely, works two jobs and goes to university and learns three languages; if I had to bet on the future of authoritarianism in those two countries I would suggest that Thailand is doomed and Vietnam will be the third major democracy in Asia along with Korea and Japan; a Vietnamese revolution is a half-generation away, because they're formatted to think independently. Partly thanks to France and America; and knowing they beat both in a war.

By the same token, America is totally fucked. Because the people here who look for liberty are authoritarians who've never lacked for it, and the anti-authoritarians in this country apparently have decided that liberty is dangerous and anathema to their agenda. This leaves me as an American Jew in a perilous situation, a mere 50 years after IBM routinely discriminated against my people for being too talky, and what, like 75 years after IBM built the mechanical calculators for nazi germany to tally up dead Jews.

So, sorry for the horribly long ramble. But I wish I was still in Oz, you sound like someone I'd really enjoy a pint with. Sorry if I'd talk your ear off. But your story was quite well written.

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some time ago I spent a lot of time in youth hostels. A pattern I noticed was that people from all different cultures were polite and considerate until the number of people in the immediate group whom they considered allies in some way crossed some threshold at which point they became jerks, disregarding rules and politeness and generally acting as though they were the only real people there. I was in Europe, so most…

I doubt your explanation. Mine is that individuals who tend to travel in groups are more likely to be uncivil.

Well I myself was meeker traveling alone than I would be in a group of friends. It was observing this in part that led me to my hypothesis. I'd like to think I wouldn't become rude with sufficient friends around me, but I haven't tested that. I did observe that the rude groups were ruder in other countries than I observed groups of the same nationalities being in their own countries.

Still, you could be right that tours select for rude tourists. The large, rude groups were more likely to have designated organizers. The rude Americans on the train didn't.

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#587
post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why people think that the SV no-poaching thing really had a large effect on people hired at Google when it was active. It didn't. I don't know what "horizontal" RSUs are, but they were options back then, and every year, you got a bigger (more value) pile of them. My total comp doubled without me getting a promotion in roughly 5 years.

The stock moved horizontally during that time.

yes, but you'd get more stock each year (a larger count). Also the stockw as definitely not "horizontal". Google outperformed the market in each of the tech bursts.

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I interviewed with Google once around the same time frame. The position I interviewed for was something along the lines of datacenter operations. I did my interview from a local Google sales office and interviewed with three other employees via video call. This was around the time that Skype was fairly new, but whatever software they were using was clearly internal to Google. Anyway, I ended up talking with 3 enginee…

so, what was the answer, from the lecture? what had you missed? Realistically if i was in datacenter ops and a server wouldn't boot i'd unrack it and rack a new one and let the dev/ops whatever team reprovision. Heck, i did this when i was just a cloud engineer, unracked from a local (non-cloud) facility and brought back machines to the office, to be RMA'd, just to help out. I get the idea that the interviewer had a…

> so, what was the answer, from the lecture? what had you missed?

He never told me and I was too flustered at the time to ask. Which was agonizing because I replayed that damn interview in my head for weeks afterward wondering where I went wrong. (Aside from slightly losing my cool, obviously.)

I didn't get the sense that the answer he was looking for was, "find someone else who can help," or, "bin the whole server and rack a new one," because I remember it being either stated or strongly implied that the hypothetical server did have some problem that could be resolved by a tech at my level. But I could be mis-remembering things, it was a long time ago.

But like I said, in the end it turned out to be a good thing that I didn't get that particular job. At least the interview itself was a very valuable learning experience and I'm grateful for that.

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#590
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, compare the employees of United vs Southwest and there's a huge difference in attitude. Southwest employees seem happy, friendly, helpful, while United... Not.

Pretty uniformly the same experience for me with Southwest (pre-pandemic). I'd sometimes prefer to fly Southwest over other airlines even for longer flights. Consistently decent people; surprisingly so, since you'd assume cheaper flights would bring more difficult customers. But maybe I never flew the cheaper routes. If I had very young children, or needed special accommodations, I might have a different opinion. The…

No Southwest is boarding is great for kids. We all board at the same time (it is after one group) So you end up all sitting together, with other parents. and anyone that sits with you did it by choice, totally lowers the anxiety of bothering other passengers that do not have kids.
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