Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds • Hacker News Board

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#581

Post by spyder » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:23 PM UTC

mmmpop wrote: post #368

redstripe wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's admirable about it? This is just a fiction that you Americans tell yourselves about the next revolution. Name one, just one way, that ease of gun ownership has protected Americans from their government in a way that citizens of other western democracies have suffered? There is no scenario in which any citizen with a gun in any country defeats their government. Your gun will keep you safe about as well as your…

If you were an officer of the law pressed to go door-to-door to say, purely hypothetically, take the oldest child by force to inscribe them in some dystopian military program, you'd probably be a lot more hesitant if you knew that there was a chance you'd get shot in the process right? I believe that's the security that us Americans (I imagine your sneer with that) feel by being armed. Isn't it that the Swiss are all…

It also makes it more likely that innocent people gets shot by police because they could have a weapon on them, and this is not hypothetical.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#582

Post by enchiridion » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:24 PM UTC

adamredwoods wrote: post #559

enchiridion wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With regard to your gun control points, there is a bit of nuance you missed that people (like me, if I wasn’t trying to help you steelman your argument) will criticize. Specifically, there are already heavy restrictions on automatic weapons, which are basically never used in criminal acts. Every automatically gun in the US has to be registered with the federal government for $200 and a lot of paperwork. In effect it…

SKS rifles cost over US$600, a $200 licensing fee isn't infringing any rights compared to the right to a fair and speedy trial. The term 'assault rifle' is used loosely by us, but in terms of law there are definitions: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1296...

Many people in the US cannot afford that. It’s an arbitrary 33% increase on an already expensive purchase. That’s a pretty strong disincentive for a lot of people. Not to mention people who would prefer to engage with the federal government as little as possible, for a wide variety of reasons.

As for the definition, if you read the definitions of the prohibited components, they are broad enough to ban essentially all rifles, which is likely the goal. For instance, “pistol grip” seems like a well defined thing at a glance, but it is later defined as “ 45) The term ‘pistol grip’ means a grip, a thumbhole stock or Thordsen-type grip or stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip.”

That last clause especially is extremely broad. Define functioning as a grip. Is that any piece that enables holding the rifle?

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#583

Post by Sevii » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:25 PM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #309

brodouevencode wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole argument that small arms are of no comparison to tanks and nuclear weapons are made by people who have no experience with firearms, fire fight and perimeter and assault tactics, or any type of military strategy. To even get to this point you would have to assume that the US would devolve into a civil war, in which you can also safely assume that many in the US military would be defectors (leaving a lot of e…

> To even get to this point you would have to assume that the US would devolve into a civil war, in which you can also safely assume that many in the US military would be defectors (leaving a lot of empty tanks and airplanes, if not turned to the "other" side). I hear this a lot from the right, and I think it's hogwash. The Biden administration has already begun ideological screening of military personnel. If the gov…

The 'highly trained' part I doubt. Our military has been crashing its destroyers into cargo ships and bungling withdrawals lately.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#584

Post by _-david-_ » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:25 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #517

GiorgioG wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The murder rate varies widely by state/area. Chicago's murder rate is significantly higher than its suburbs. The murder rate in the town (37k residents) I live in (in the south) is effectively zero. I wouldn't doubt that all of my neighbors around me (most of us are originally from a northern state) have guns and we've managed not to kill each other. Do you think the French revolution didn't require violence?

> The murder rate varies widely by state/area Everytime I see this line of reasoning I'm utterly shocked at the lack of understanding. What you said applies equally across any other country too. So France's 1.2 is an average of the entire country. Yes, half of any country is below the average!

States have different laws. Some states are more strict about guns while others are more lax.

States in the US have significantly more difference than the regions in France (or whatever they are called). It is probably more accurate to compare the US to the EU and France to an individual state.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

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Post by yesenadam » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:26 PM UTC

teakettle42 wrote: post #540

Jedd wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PS: I am strong supporter of Gun rights and proud gun owner. I don't understand the pride bit. It seems like a regrettable situation where your distrust of your fellow citizens is so strong that you are comforted by the ability to kill them with minimal effort. (I'm in Australia, where we have some truly horrendous legislation, but I totally agree with our gun ownership laws here, and echo other people's observatio…

> I don't understand the pride bit. I can't speak to the parent, but I take pride in self-reliance, and taking responsibility for securing and defending the well-being of myself, my family, neighbors, and community. I also am a volunteer, state-certified structure firefighter, and take pride in that for the exact same reason. You might find it interesting that, as part of our classroom instruction, my structure firef…

> the tragedy isn't the gun, but the necessity for one, and it's a tragedy inherent in our mortal existence.

Well, they're sure not necessary here in Australia. I don't think I've ever met someone who owns one, certainly no-one has ever mentioned owning a gun to me. It's just not a thing. Seems to be just "a tragedy inherent" in the USA.

I was watching every day, and supporting, the George Floyd protests, and after a while those in Seattle and Portland.. until Raz got machine guns from his car and starting handing them out. WTF?! That was the plan?! I switched off, disgusted. That suddenly all seemed insane.

Like it does hearing people from the US on HN talking about guns. It just sounds crazy. I read on HN someone from the US saying Australians wouldn't be under lockdown if only we had guns etc. It just sounds insane, disturbing even reading that. What am I gonna do with a gun?!

But maybe, when everyone else has a gun, you feel you need for one too. Just know that it's not like that in every country.

Although if my country had spent most of the last 120 years invading other countries, subverting their politics, stealing their wealth, like the US has, I'd have urges to defend myself from it with a gun, too, maybe, I don't know. It's weird though. US violence has been focused outwards, on other countries, yet to hear people from the US, they never heard about that, don't feel involved or responsible, yet are obsessed with the possibility of US government violence happening to them one day.

I don't claim to understand the situation, just I'm very glad not to live in a country where everyone has a gun. OK, now I will stop reading gun stories/comments on HN. Good luck!

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#586

Post by thordenmark » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:27 PM UTC

Afghanistan showed that a people with the will and some handguns and rifles can face the greatest superpower the world has ever known, and win. The argument of private ownership of guns as protection from the government is a perfectly valid one.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#587

Post by notacoward » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:27 PM UTC

Bhilai wrote: post #279

A friend of our family recently bought a gun and that made me ask them why. Their response was of course personal safety at which point I asked them some more questions and turns out they keep the gun in a gun safe and bullets in another location so as to not cause any accidents as they have kids. But this practice seemed utterly useless if their home was being actively being robbed/attacked since they wont have the…

Another possibility is that they just keep them that way now but want to have the guns, ammunition, and training ready if the situation in the country should take a sudden downturn. I know a few very liberal people who have bought guns recently primarily because they don't want the crazies to be the only ones who are armed. They would undoubtedly change their storage methods e.g. if Trumpists decide to violently contest or reject the results of an election.

ETA: How are guns not a sort of trophy for the majority of gun (especially handgun) owners? That's certainly how my gun-afficionado friends on FB seem to treat the ones they post about. Almost certainly never fired at all, let alone in anger.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#588

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:28 PM UTC

mullingitover wrote: post #487

harshreality wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That study doesn't even say that. It doesn't propose causation, and looks at accessible firearms, not gun ownership. There's no way a gun kept in a safe or a nightstand reasonably affects your likelihood of getting shot, everything else being equal. > We also did not account for the potential of reverse causation between gun possession and gun assault. The study's methodology looks terrible. It's a case-control popul…

Even ignoring this study, there's the fact that sometimes we get sad and having a simple suicide mechanism laying around your home makes you dramatically more likely to kill yourself[1]. > Men who own handguns are eight times more likely to die of gun suicides than men who don’t own handguns, and women who own handguns are 35 times more likely than women who don’t. I don't understand why the pro-gun crowd flails arou…

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Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#589

Post by zepto » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:30 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #448

KorematsuFredt wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a very simple litmus test. In how many countries can you openly (with lots of publicity) organize "Draw a Muhammad" or "Burn the bible" events.

That is a poor test in my opinion. I do not value symbolic personal liberties like bible burning or drawing Muhammad more than economic or press freedom which have a much larger cascading effect on our lives. And the fact that the US is lacking in those two latter categories compared to many of our peer nations calls into question whether our freedom regarding guns or speech actually protects our other freedoms.

The US is not lacking in either press or economic freedom compared to ‘peer’ nations.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#590

Post by lr4444lr » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:30 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #447

chmod600 wrote: post #73

There's something admirable about the idea that a government would not take away all the guns. The idea that people should not have to give up all of their ability to fight. The idea that people should not be entirely dependent on police for their defense. And the idea that physically weaker people (often women) can defend themselves against the strong. Does this idea work? Surprisingly well. If you had to guess the…

I do not at all accept that guns empower the weak. We can see all over the world they are a massive force multiplier for criminals, the violent and the murderous. Guns are only potent in the hands of those willing and able to use violence. For those unwilling to do so, they are massively disenfranchising. They essentially tilt the balance of power in society decisively in favour of those most willing to kill, and mos…

Reading what you say, one would conclude that countries with restrictive gun laws do not oppress minority groups in any way, nor have they ever.