TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app • Hacker News Board

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#581

Post by rvz » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 9:44 AM UTC

romwell wrote: post #527

markild wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have any skin in this game, but I think it's very sad to see that the conclusion being drawn from this discussion is that it's unprovoked hostility. I see disagreements and different values. I hope both parties in this discussion can disconnect the message from the person. Having discussions with people we disagree with about topics we see differently is in my honest opinion the way we get out of the "us vs t…

>I think it's very sad to see that the conclusion being drawn from this discussion is that it's unprovoked hostility. I think it's sad that unprovoked hostility isn't recognized. >I hope both parties in this discussion can disconnect the message from the person The message rvz makes is about a person , namely, me . They said: "users like the parent comment are once again the prime product addicted under a para-social…

> The message rvz makes is about a person, namely, me. They said: "users like the parent comment are once again the prime product addicted under a para-social relationship with other addicted influencers".

> That message makes a claim about me, and this is not acceptable.

Some of the commenters here already have also suggested that TikTok is even more addictive than the other social networks; perhaps designed to be this way. How is it 'unacceptable' to suggest that users like yourself and influencers are also addicted as well since TikTok's recommendation algorithm is getting something right on its users over the rest of the other social networks?

So you are not addicted to TikTok then? (Despite you actively creating content on the platform and admitting it has '...made me life better already' and saying '...TikTok is the best thing to have happened to the Internet.' and describing to have a parasocial interaction with creators with hundreds of thousands of other followers)

> Someone calling me an addict to parasocial relationships is not an opinion we should be agreeing or disagreeing about. Unless specifically asked, by me, you don't get to opine on that.

Well you put what you do on TikTok for other people right here to comment and you yourself admitted what is described by definition as a parasocial interaction. If that doesn't fit the definition, I don't know what does.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#582

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 9:46 AM UTC

nos4A2 wrote: post #266

ALittleLight wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thesis for America exceeding China in the near term future that I have heard is "Our Chinese will beat their Chinese." [1] 1 - https://alphastar.academy/us-team-wins-1st-place-at-internat...

I wouldn't take that for granted at all, the last 4 years will definitely have a lasting impact on any brain gain the US might've had.

[deleted]

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#583

Post by pedroma » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 9:47 AM UTC

nos4A2 wrote: post #266

ALittleLight wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thesis for America exceeding China in the near term future that I have heard is "Our Chinese will beat their Chinese." [1] 1 - https://alphastar.academy/us-team-wins-1st-place-at-internat...

I wouldn't take that for granted at all, the last 4 years will definitely have a lasting impact on any brain gain the US might've had.

Curious what you're implying happened in the US in the last 4 years. Maybe I'm missing some important event other than Covid but that affects all countries.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#584

Post by _xnmw » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 9:50 AM UTC

The interesting thing here is the rate of change in the social media space. Facebook took about 10 years to gain the global reach that it did, and TikTok only took about 3 years. The next winner may come and go within the span of a year.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#585

Post by hutzlibu » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 9:54 AM UTC

romwell wrote: post #541

oblio wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, I think it's more than fortune telling. The social media business model is very dirty, it's an addiction machine coupled with selling your data to the highest bidder. The end result will invariably be the same. It's like free image hosting or free file hosting. A "better", "cleaner" hoster appears and then they either go bankrupt or they sell out. Some stuff is just predictable at this point. Social med…

Let me pose a different question. What value does the following claim bring into the discussion: "The is going to be just as bad as , just give it time"? It's just needless negativity. There are so many interesting things about TikTok that one can discuss, and choosing to just be a Debbie Downer about it ("You like it, but it's bad for you!") feel like an extremely boring way to think about anything.

Well, to me it sounds like: "Yeah, it showed that all the old chemical party drugs are bad in the long run, but this new party drug makes you feel really good, so why worry about the future?"

I mean do it, if you want. But I also have the opinion that I do not want to base my happiness and wellbeing in something that has shown to have a short timed luck - followed by darkness. And I do not see society benefitting. When I watch my young nephews as mindless TikTok zombies - I do not see them happy really. They are occupied. But happy?

I see them happy, when they do real kids stuff - running around, jumping, fighting, doing stupid things. Also gaming together. And if they watch some videos - why not. But they seem just addicted to me already. It is all about a healthy balance - and those "social media apps" have the goal to maximize engagement - that means addiction and not a healthy balance.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#586

Post by rvz » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:00 AM UTC

xvector wrote: post #571

rvz wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. That is the pattern. This is yet another social network doing the same typical social network things found on other networks with: * Far more invasive tracking * Designed to be addictive as possible. * Manipulation of content - seen and unseen * Feeds are gamed by larger creators * Lots of privacy violations and getting sued for it. Every other social network has all of these properties and TikTok isn't any d…

> Far more invasive tracking False. It's actually not worse than any other social media platform. [1] It doesn't even try to exploit your browser and device, like Reddit does. [2] [1]: https://medium.com/@fs0c131y/tiktok-logs-logs-logs-e93e81626... [2]: https://smitop.com/post/reddit-whiteops/

So you are showing me that both Reddit and TikTok do fingerprinting on their users? There is no difference in any of the posts you have linked. You might need to read both of those posts again.

So this is not far more invasive tracking in TikTok as of 2021 then? [0] [1]

[0] https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/03/tiktok-just-gave-itself-pe...

[1] https://www.wsj.com/video/series/inside-tiktoks-highly-secre...

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#587

Post by cerved » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:01 AM UTC

dTal wrote: post #314

mrtksn wrote: post #25

I'm a huge fan of TikTok because after years of content stagnation and dullness, the internet is fun again. Especially places like Twitter and Instagram are outrage and depression inducers for me, consumed together it feels like the society is collapsing but everyone is living a perfect life at the same time. The China thing is touchy but I want the west to beat them by being better, not by being dismissive and prote…

>the short and fast phased nature of the TikTok content Ahh, so it's Twitter for video... is this good? It's my impression that there's a growing consensus that Twitter's content length restriction optimizes for shallow hot takes and angry mobs.

remember Vine?

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#588

Post by madeofpalk » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:04 AM UTC

cwkoss wrote: post #49

mrtksn wrote: post #25

I'm a huge fan of TikTok because after years of content stagnation and dullness, the internet is fun again. Especially places like Twitter and Instagram are outrage and depression inducers for me, consumed together it feels like the society is collapsing but everyone is living a perfect life at the same time. The China thing is touchy but I want the west to beat them by being better, not by being dismissive and prote…

It would be really interesting if TikTok allowed users to make a sequential thread of videos, and added a scroll control to view "next video in sequence". Currently "part 2" videos are very tedious to find, if they could make a way to continue a sequence from the fyp with a simple gesture or button, I think they could seriously challenge longer form videos as well.

What you're describing is Quibi.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#589

Post by romwell » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:04 AM UTC

freedomben wrote: post #558

romwell wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like the comment you made, as it's constructive: "I wonder what makes TikTok different from other social networks regarding divisiveness" is an interesting question that adds value to the discussion. It's an invitation to ponder, research, and share perspectives. It differs from the ones before it: "You like it now, but give it time, it will be bad just like the rest" is not a statement of the same kind. It'…

I'm in agreement with your perspective, but: > See, you just made a constructive comment! Came off as very patronizing, and even infantilizing. GP is not even part of the disagreement above. They just made a good comment. It seems like you are lumping them together with the others that you are bothered by. If you just removed the quoted section then you're reply is otherwise great.

Point taken, comment fixed, thanks for the feedback!

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#590

Post by dspillett » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:12 AM UTC

romwell wrote: post #294

aerosmile wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had an issue with Zuck calling early Facebook users "dumb f**ks," wait until you find out what's going on behind the closed Tik Tok doors. You have to remember - we're still in the honeymoon phase with Tik Tok and haven't learned to hate them yet. Once the media and all your friends start sharing hatred about Tik Tok, leaks are going to start coming out, and there will be all the other fun ways through which w…

Yeah, no. TikTok's algorithm has introduced me to my (now) favorite neurodivergent and LGBTQ+ content makers. Some of them have hundreds of thousands of followers, some a few hundred. I've learned more about these subjects (and myself!) than from most other sources. The value of TikTok for me was that it linked up a bunch of neurodivergent/lgbtq+ people into a vibrant, supportive community. Honestly, if they decide t…

> TikTok's algorithm has introduced me to my (now) favorite neurodivergent and LGBTQ+ content makers.

But when did that start? Possibly earlier before the “people who attract trouble” filters were added in to the algorithms or tweaked. Now you've shown engagement with those families of content other parts of the recommendation system will be taking precedence over the negative filters. A newer user than yourself may have quite a different experience, only finding those groups through external recommendation.

> Honestly, if they decide to keep it a clique... I don't mind at all.

So now you are in the clique, you are fine with it being a clique (not just that: a clique born of external pressure to keep it quiet, not through the cliques choice) and other like you but not there yet can fend for themselves?

[I'm deliberately pulling your words towards an extreme a little here to make a point: being happy with your position in the status quo does not mean it is a good status quo, just that you exist near a local maxima]

As the userbase continues to grow, these artificial cliques will become increasingly more minority and the whole system will become a more unpleasant place for people who don't fit the supported pattern (and as they are filtering the bullied not the bullies, the supported pattern, the future majority if it isn't already, implicitly includes the bullies).

> All the people I interact with there get me. I've never felt this anywhere else.

While the filtering described above (stop bullying by hiding the people who might be bullied because it is easier than actually dealing with the bullies) can be seen to have a positive effect of keeping the knuckle-dragging numbskulls away from your communities, it also hides your communities from others like you who might need their support or could otherwise benefit from being part of them.

> but simply being themselves

As long as you don't mind being yourselves to a limited audience, where the limits are set by external pressures not your needs/desires. If you'll forgive another appeal to the extreme: tiktok filtering differences that might attract bullying seems to me not dissimilar to allowing you to be yourselves but only if you wouldn't mind terribly, being who you are in just those specific seats at the back of the bus, thanks.

---

Not that I have an axe to grind for myself here (straight, white, middle class, middle-aged, native English speaker, approaching financially comfortable, ..., about as divergent as an entirely undivergent thing) other than a bit of bullied-for-being-different as a kid (being a geek/nerd type wasn't fashionable back then) but I have friends & other contacts all over the various spectra and from what I know of their experiences and how tiktok is run and how similar things have played out over the decades, what you describe sounds to be a very short term good thing that is (and will continue to be if unchecked) an increasingly closed off part of the system, a walled garden built not to keep you safe but to keep you out of sight. Allowing yourself to be kept out of sight is not how to encourage society to move forward and be more accepting.