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We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

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Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#581

Post by standardUser »

SilverRed wrote: post #489
standardUser wrote: post #108

Apartment hunting is the most inefficient "purchasing" decision I have ever had to make, and the one most likely to end up with a severely sub-optimal outcome. There's some good ideas here that would at least facilitate efficiently viewing more apartments. But there's still so much extremely basic information that potential renters either cannot get about a unit or have to jump through hoops to get. Noise issues, pes…

The property management company often doesn't even know. It took me a week to find out which car park number was mine which took building management to tell the property manager. There is no way the management companies know anything about noise levels or neighbors. Larger buildings tend to have reviews online but outside of that its a gamble.

"There is no way the management companies know anything about noise levels or neighbors"

They actually do, because they receive complaints from tenants. They should be required to document that information and provide it to potential renters.

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#582

Post by pydry »

crazygringo wrote: post #577
pydry wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

shrug they made losses of 15 billion dollars and all that would be required to stem future losses in what has become a stable duopoly is one conversation. I tend to assume the path of least resistance.

The path of least resistance is not going to prison. You realize that in publicly traded corporations decisions are made by whole teams of people? And that people talk? Word gets out, company gets fined more than they made, executives go to prison. The US actually prosecutes this stuff, the same way they vigorously prosecute insider trading. A couple of neighboring grocery stores can realistically collude to raise pr…

It may be illegal but it's hard to prove collusion.

It certainly doesnt require whole teams of people. It requires a few senior managers to be in on it.

The just world hypothesis is a powerful thing.

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#583

Post by TeMPOraL »

crazygringo wrote: post #577
pydry wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

shrug they made losses of 15 billion dollars and all that would be required to stem future losses in what has become a stable duopoly is one conversation. I tend to assume the path of least resistance.

The path of least resistance is not going to prison. You realize that in publicly traded corporations decisions are made by whole teams of people? And that people talk? Word gets out, company gets fined more than they made, executives go to prison. The US actually prosecutes this stuff, the same way they vigorously prosecute insider trading. A couple of neighboring grocery stores can realistically collude to raise pr…

> A couple of neighboring grocery stores can realistically collude to raise prices. Multinational public corporations, not so much.

Sure they can, someone on HN described the algorithm once:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22798808

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#584

Post by crazygringo »

pydry wrote: post #582
crazygringo wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The path of least resistance is not going to prison. You realize that in publicly traded corporations decisions are made by whole teams of people? And that people talk? Word gets out, company gets fined more than they made, executives go to prison. The US actually prosecutes this stuff, the same way they vigorously prosecute insider trading. A couple of neighboring grocery stores can realistically collude to raise pr…

It may be illegal but it's hard to prove collusion. It certainly doesnt require whole teams of people. It requires a few senior managers to be in on it. The just world hypothesis is a powerful thing.

You don't need to lecture me about the just world hypothesis, I'm well aware of it thanks. The insult isn't appreciated.

You should realize that at a purely practical level collusion is far more difficult to achieve than you seem to think.

A few senior managers are going to do something super-risky without the knowledge of general counsel, the board, etc.? Something that can get them sent to prison? So their stock options go up a little bit? While 99% of the benefit goes to remaining investors? At the risk of being caught and the entire company being fined, to the detriment of all remaining investors as well?

Not to mention the senior managers need to justify to C-suite, board, etc. what their strategy is, and why raising prices won't result in the competition eating their lunch. And the C-suite and board aren't dumb.

On top of this, collusion can result in defectors as well -- company A raises prices, company B promised they would but doesn't (or lowers them again later) -- and then what?

It's not so easy. Collusion is unstable, risky in multiple ways, and difficult. I'm not saying that it never happens, but regarding large publicly traded companies, it's by far the exception, not the rule.

None of this has to do with what we wish the world was like. It's just basic incentives and coordination. But sure, have fun with your conspiracy theories.

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#585

Post by AJRF »

solveit wrote: post #562
AJRF wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but nope you are wrong again, I was never paid after the 20th. Payment was always before or on the 20th, in 3 years not a single rental was after the 20th. I am sorry I am not fitting your curve neatly.

They docked you because you sometimes paid rent early ?

Well to them it wasn't so much early as it was inconsistent.

I mentioned somewhere else in this thread bank-to-bank transfer like the ones I was making are through the Faster Payments network which means they reconcile same-day - I don't know if their software was checking for pay on just the 20th, or if it was docking me because the pay was irregular, but there was some naive logic in there somewhere.

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#586

Post by Bombthecat »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #567
konschubert wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany, the tenant usually has a 3 month termination notice requirement. The landlord just CANT terminate the lease, ever. (Unless he is going to live in the place herself or the tenant stopped paying. And even then, it takes a long time to get a tenant out. It works just fine.

> Unless he is going to live in the place herself Can just lie. My last landlord said he was moving back in because of family circumstances. As soon as he kicked me out he renovated it and put it up for sale. Didn’t get an offer he was happy with and was asking me if I wanted to move back in 12 months later.

Happened to my mom too and a friend of mine.

Tenant said "he moves back, of family"

But that never happened, just rented out to the next person for a higher rent.

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#587

Post by nicbou »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #31
cde-v wrote: post #6

Would love something like this to kill (or at least severely maim) the broker industry in NYC. 0 value added at the cost of 10-15% of yearly rent.

The assumption that software can solve this problem is simply wrong. It's the regulation change that needs to happen if you don't want that renter pay the broker "services". For example, a new law in Germany to apply the "who hires pays" principle for brokers in the renting market basically made the renting "broker fee free" for renters. Previously, the landlords would hire a broker that needed to be paid by the rent…

Yes this law came in 2015 and it indeed made a big difference. I saw zero downsides thus far.

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#588

Post by nicbou »

e12e wrote: post #201
tut-urut-utut wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The assumption that software can solve this problem is simply wrong. It's the regulation change that needs to happen if you don't want that renter pay the broker "services". For example, a new law in Germany to apply the "who hires pays" principle for brokers in the renting market basically made the renting "broker fee free" for renters. Previously, the landlords would hire a broker that needed to be paid by the rent…

> "who hires pays" principle for brokers in the renting market basically made the renting "broker fee free" for renters. How can that work? Landlord (absent regulation) set the rents as high as they want/can get away with. What's the difference between 100/month rent + 50/month broker fee, and 150/month rent + "zero"/month broker fee?

German landlords can't set the rent as high as they want, for starters. At least not in Berlin with the Mietpreisbremse capping how high rent can be relative to the past, and to the neighbourhood.

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#589

Post by nicbou »

iFreilicht wrote: post #575
tut-urut-utut wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The assumption that software can solve this problem is simply wrong. It's the regulation change that needs to happen if you don't want that renter pay the broker "services". For example, a new law in Germany to apply the "who hires pays" principle for brokers in the renting market basically made the renting "broker fee free" for renters. Previously, the landlords would hire a broker that needed to be paid by the rent…

I liked the idea of that law, but in high-density areas, it didn't change anything. The renters are now implicitly expected to cover the broker fee for thee landlord. If they don't offer that in advance, they won't get the apartment.

I have never heard of such a thing, but before 2015 Makler fees were ubiquitous. I live in Berlin.

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#590

Post by TheRealPomax »

kennywinker wrote: post #580
TheRealPomax wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're going to have to work a lot harder to argue the connection between the first and second part of that first sentence, because one does not lead to the other. You might be right --I don't think you are, but you might be-- but right now that sentence means nothing, and that fully undermines whatever point you're trying to argue.

Are you saying that you don't think startups seek to displace middle men and create monopolies? or are you saying companies with monopolies don't exploit those to overcharge people as much as possible? Because neither of those statements is exactly controversial.

What I think, and what you think, is irrelevant. Back up your claims, or they're just you trying to convince yourself you know something you don't.

Cutting out the middle man does not by definition lead to monopolies, especially not when the market has tens of thousands of sellers (if not orders of magnitude more), and tens of thousands of buyers (or, renters, in this case. And again, if not orders of magnitudes more).

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