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Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

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581–590 of 840 posts

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#581

He sounds kind of toxic and out of touch, and didn't really mention why he stayed so long despite that being the title of the article. You know someone is Up To Something when they rant about HR restricting their speech. It's weird to me that he's now a free agent, rants about how people complained that "I used a four letter word, my analogy was not PC, my language was not PG", and yet doesn't indulge in his blog pos…

At the risk of being not politically correct myself, I think there are significant cultural gaps between the west coast American standard and people from Israel (Bardin is Isralei). With the caveat that this is my experience only, Israelis are more blunt, direct and often openly critical vs Americans, especially Californians. They're often right and all the ones I've worked with have been very smart, but the way a me…

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Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#582

> It is practically impossible to fire someone for the basic reason that you don't need this role any more or there is a better person out there or just plain old - you are not doing a great job. Wow I didn’t think I would ever see anyone openly state in writing that it is too hard to fire people for being old. (Age discrimination against those 40 and older is against federal law. It’s also morally wrong. I would als…

You're misreading the sentence, he's not saying people should be fired for being old. He's saying at Google you can not fire someone for the "plain old reason" of "they're not doing a good job".

Having worked at Google, it is extremely difficult to fire a low performer. It takes about 6-12 months, many visits with HR, and a ton of documentation. So there is a common practice of managers trying to offload their low performers onto other teams, as mentioned in the post.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#583
post #99

This is an amazing post - it describes exactly how bad manager looks like and what kind of expectations does he have from his employees. No emergency PTO (despite being a benefit), ability to just get rid of people who don't suit him, cursing at people, not having a proper work/life balance. It just keeps on giving. And all for what? A mapping application having features which really don't save lives 99% of the time.

I'm glad that this is the prevailing sentiment in this thread. At first, the article was just run of the mill complaints about Google culture but it took a nasty turn towards the end so I came looking for validation in the comments

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not invalid by itself as long as everyone knows that the game is purely transactional. But it isn't fair to expect employee "passion" when their own continued employment is contingent on whether management thinks they're still necessary. This still seems to hold no?

> when their own continued employment is contingent on whether management thinks they're still necessary Talk about entitlement. You think that when a company hires you, that should be a commitment to employ you forever regardless of need? Passion can come from your own investment in the success of the business, through equity and through the opportunities that come to productive employees at growing companies, both…

I agree that expecting permanent employment based on passion would be an overly-entitled attitude. But the author's complaint, that employees treat the product as "a tool to advance the employees career, not a passion, mission or economic game changer", seems ridiculous in a context where an employee can be fired as soon as they're no longer useful. Why should he complain that employees look out for themselves if no one else is going to?

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#585
One question i have about working at Google - a bit embarrassing to ask, but does one's Google account/search history come into play during the application/interview process? I'd rather not be grilled about why I was Googling how to hack Wi-Fi passwords in 2012.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#586
I can certainly see a lot of parallels with Oculus / Facebook.

Perhaps unusually, I actually wanted FB to impress itself more strongly on Oculus post acquisition because, frankly, Oculus was a bit of a mess. Instead, Oculus was given an enormous amount of freedom for many years.

Personally, nobody ever told me what to do, even though I was willing to "shut up and soldier" if necessary -- they bought that capability! Conversely, I couldn't tell anyone what to do from my position; the important shots were always called when I wasn't around. Some of that was on me for not being willing to relocate to HQ, but a lot of it was built into early Oculus DNA.

I could only lead by example and argument, and the arguments only took on weight after years of evidence accumulated. I could have taken a more traditional management position, but I would have hated it, so that's also on me. The political dynamics never quite aligned with an optimal set of leadership personalities and beliefs where I would have had the best leverage, but there was progress, and I am reasonably happy and effective as a part time consultant today, seven years later.

Talking about "entitled workers" almost certainly derails the conversation. Perhaps a less charged framing that still captures some of the matter is the mixing of people who Really Care about their work with the Just A Job crowd. The wealth of the mega corps does allow most goals to be accomplished, at great expense, with Just A Job workers, but people that have experienced being embedded with Really Care workers are going to be appalled at the relative effectiveness.

The communication culture does tend a bit passive-aggressive for my taste, but I can see why it evolves that way in large organizations. I've only been officially dinged by HR once for insensitive language in a post, but a few people have reached out privately with some gentle suggestions about better communication.

All in all, not a perfect fairy tale outcome, but I still consider taking the acquisition offer as the correct thing for the company in hindsight.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> offensive to a small vocal minority I really don't see how this is an excuse. it's like saying "black people are a minority in the US so who cares if they say they are oppressed"

I think it's reasonable to assume that not everyone is going to like everything that you say. I don't think this is an issue. If there's a specific demographic that is consistently affected by what you're saying, there might be an issue though.

> I think it's reasonable to assume that not everyone is going to like everything that you say.

Sure but it's really not that hard to keep things under control in the work place. I have my own opinions, sometimes I share them at work, sometimes people may disagree, however, I don't "rack up multiple HR complaints" like this guy did.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I may or may not have passion, but that should be immaterial to the job at hand. Perhaps this is our disagreement. Employees with passion often perform better and there is nothing "unfair" about employers desiring passionate employees for that reason. I agree that passion shouldn't be a requirement per se (whatever that means) if job performance is otherwise good, but passion is very highly correlated with job perf…

> Employees with passion often perform better That sounds really weird to me to bring up, regardless of whether it's true or not. As in this makes sense when you're thinking of trying to hire folks trying to gauge passion as a proxy for their performance when you can't directly observe it, but when they're working for you, you don't need proxies! You can directly observe performance! So passion seems pretty irrelevan…

The thing you quoted literally said it was "unfair" for employers to expect passion from their at-will employees. I guess you're saying it's fine for employers to "desire" passion but not to "expect" it? OK, sure.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misinterpreting what he's saying. I didn't get the impression that he claims that employees growth doesn't matter. He's saying that most people optimize for promotion rather than building a better product. That's indeed the wrong thing to optimize for, esp for the company. Not being able to fire people is indeed a big disadvantage. Bad employees are much worse than just not contributing. They make the peo…

But he's not strictly talking about "bad employees"; he explicitly mentions firing people for "the basic reason that you don't need this role any more". That's not invalid by itself as long as everyone knows that the game is purely transactional. But it isn't fair to expect employee "passion" when their own continued employment is contingent on whether management thinks they're still necessary.

Exactly. It is natural when "human resources" treat their company as a "salary resource".

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#590

> It is practically impossible to fire someone for the basic reason that you don't need this role any more or there is a better person out there or just plain old - you are not doing a great job. Wow I didn’t think I would ever see anyone openly state in writing that it is too hard to fire people for being old. (Age discrimination against those 40 and older is against federal law. It’s also morally wrong. I would als…

I think you're misinterpreting the sentence, I did too when I first read it. He's using plain old, as a reference to normal or regular.

Like, I just wore a plain old shirt to the concert. Meaning, I just wore a regular shirt to the concert.

In this sentence, it means, "or just the regular reason of 'you're not doing a great job'."

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