Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption • Hacker News Board

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#581

Post by Daho0n » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

jeofken wrote: post #123

r00fus wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be based on something like this: https://thedriven.io/2020/03/24/siemens-converts-all-lamp-po...

In Copenhagen there are charging poles in a lot of places, also in the inner city. They’re reserved for EVs. For this reason, it’s very easy to find parking with a EV and leave with a full tank. You bring your own cable which costs $120 (+25% VAT), which is locked to the car and the charging pole, so it can’t be stolen without being ruined.

As a Dane I can attest that charging infrastructure is most definitely not anywhere near good enough for most people that doesn't have their own parking spot. I just bought a mild-hybrid for the exact reason that charging is impossible if I don't want to drive in circles looking for a spot or risk having to either walk home or sit at a charging station starring at the sky on my way home.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#582

Post by treeman79 » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

riffraff wrote: post #408

PurpleFoxy wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick charging is a just in case solution and probably shouldn’t be relied on. It’s more efficient and likely much easier on the battery to slow charge it overnight.

The problem with that is that in many places (i.e. most European cities) you don't have a dedicated parking spot, so to park overnight you would need to put charging spots on every street every five meters. The task is possible, but gargantuan.

Also some people just don’t like to share. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/12/charg...

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#583

Post by Daho0n » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

gregkerzhner wrote: post #27

strict9 wrote: post #7

I rarely drive, but can't wait to own one. Where I live (and for a lot of people who live in cities) there is only on-street parking. Will be interesting to see how increased electric vehicle ownership might happen for people without a garage or designated parking.

This. Curios to hear about people's experiences owning an EV without access to a charger at home.

Experience: swapping the car out with a mild hybrid as the charging while shopping strategy is awful and broken. If you absolutely have to charge there (because you can't charge at home for a lack of a private spot) you end up driving in circles, trying to get a spot, or go to a charging station instead after you have given up at the mall when the parking is full. Suddenly every shopping trip ends up with the risk of taking an hour instead of 15 minutes. Not recommended unless you have your own charger and parking available.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#584

Post by Daho0n » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:12 PM UTC

dzhiurgis wrote: post #415

k__ wrote: post #4

Good to hear. I'm not driving much myself lately, but I'm really excited about the health impact of removing combustion engines from our cities.

Noise too. Wish they taxed cars by decibels too. Charge motorcycles, heavy machinery and sports cars like 100k a year.

>Wish they taxed cars by decibels too

Then the couple living down the road from me would have to pay the same for their Tesla as their neighbor would pay for their Ford Mondeo. When they drive past me they are emitting the same amount of nose to the roadside since all I can hear is wind and tire noise. Then you could measure the noise inside the car instead (or it would be a race to the bottom of who will put on the worst tires from the factory) and a huge Mercedes SUV would be dirt cheap compared to an old Nissan Leaf.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#585

Post by Noos » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:13 PM UTC

jussij wrote: post #148

fiftyfifty wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a false dichotomy, we have to get away from thinking of charging stations like gas pumps. Charging stations can be everywhere: grocery stores, retail stores, office buildings, malls, just about any parking lot or parking garage, hotels, airport parking and on and on. Gas pumps have to have huge underground tanks, and they have to be regularly refilled by large tanker trucks, by their very nature they will be…

I also think from the driver's perspective the usage will be totally different. Today's driver generally goes to the gas station only when the tank is empty. That leads to a 'big bang' event in that the tank will be close to empty at the start of the visit and full by the end of the visit. By comparison the driver of the electric car will be using a 'top up' approach, charging the car at home over night, at work when…

People also are supposed to charge their cellular phones and laptop batteries in the same manner. You'd be surprised if you ever worked in retail how many people forget this, their phones die, and they scrambled to buy cords to do so.

I feel like people don't get the difference between ideal and reality here that often.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#586

Post by impendia » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #541

ferongr wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carrying 35kg of groceries sucks. Especially when it rains. Personally, I drive 2km to a larger store with underground parking instead of visiting the store two blocks away.

That's a very narrow minded approach :-) People don't carry around 35kg of groceries each time they go to the local supermarket. They buy a tiny bit of what they need each day, walking back from home/school, since it takes so little time and often it's on the way, anyway. Carrying 2-5-6-7-8-10kg is quite easy.

Indeed, for a year I had the chance to live five minutes' walk from an excellent grocery store. It was right across the street from the yoga studio where I practiced, and on my way between home and work. There were lots of automated checkouts and the store was very efficiently run.

Previously, the idea of going to the grocery store every day had sounded like terrible tedium -- but I found myself doing it and it was wonderful.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#587

Post by impendia » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:25 PM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #566

oblio wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very narrow minded approach :-) People don't carry around 35kg of groceries each time they go to the local supermarket. They buy a tiny bit of what they need each day, walking back from home/school, since it takes so little time and often it's on the way, anyway. Carrying 2-5-6-7-8-10kg is quite easy.

I've had a frustrating form of this conversation with so many Americans. The concept of buying less than 40L of soda at a time, because presumably they drink many liters per day, is hard to overcome for some. They literally will not believe that it is possible to but a days worth of groceries every day, and get fresh, quality food. But the more people saying that it can be done, and is a superior way to shop, the mor…

In most American cities, going to the grocery store is kind of a pain. You have to drive somewhere, usually at least a mile or two. You have to find some place to park and walk across a huge parking lot. The store itself will be huge, if you're just getting three things you have to trek all the way across the store to retrieve them. And the lines at the checkout can be bad.

As I mentioned in another comment, I had the opportunity to live for a year in a very walkable neighborhood, with an excellent grocery store. It was convenient, it was small, the food was high quality, checkout was lightning fast. I found myself going there nearly every day and it was wonderful.

But once I needed to move back to a more car-centered city, the idea of doing this became once again unthinkable. Far too big of a chore to do daily.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#588

Post by Daho0n » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:25 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #119

julienb_sea wrote: post #115

Electric cars are perfectly pleasant to own as a second car or if you very rarely take long road trips. If it's very cold or very hot, if you drive to the mountains or rural areas for pleasure, range anxiety is a serious problem. Waiting for a re-charge is ok if you have access to Tesla supercharger speeds. Forcing this lifestyle change on everyone is absolutely insane. The climate imperative is poor reasoning becaus…

It's wild to me that no other car manufacturers have taken Tesla up on their offer for supercharger access. EVs without supercharger access are strict city cars. The electrify america network sucks, non tesla range is mostly bad (with a small number of exceptions). Even with decent range, lack of supercharger access makes the car a non-starter. I think Tesla's advantage here remains huge, I think legacy car companies…

You lost me at

>this is even ignoring their inability to write or ship software

If anyone cannot write or ship software it is Tesla. My Toyota is light-years ahead in the software and updating department and I'll never again touch a Tesla with a stick in my life. Talk about crappy software. No what Tesla's got going for them is first mover and that is over soon. Even cheap Chinese EVs like the MG is closing with Tesla fast. Apple is working with Hyundai, which is another company biting at Tesla's heals. Hyundai cars with Apple software/design for Apple fans and Tesla is left in the dust. They need to invest a lot more in quality than they do now -without raising the price- if they aren't going to be left behind when the big guys get moving.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#589

Post by arpa » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:31 PM UTC

jiggawatts wrote: post #246

My problem is renting apartments. If you ask the strata or the building managers about charging points in the carpark, they look at you like you're speaking Klingon. This is true of even very recently completed buildings in well-off areas of relatively wealthy western countries. Heck, I just walked past three Teslas in my building's car park, one of which is new and wasn't there last week! Do people... not plan ahead…

I get IPv4 exhaustion, but IPv6 is hardly a solution.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#590

Post by tw04 » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

theshrike79 wrote: post #497

tw04 wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I agree with that math for a number of reasons. For starters if you want to go strictly by averages, the average household has two cars, so your 9.2kW goes to 18.4kW out of the gate. Additionally that average includes teenagers which drives the mileage down, but households with teens tend to have more cars, so that means either they come out of the average or the 18.4 jumps to 27.6kW/day. The average hou…

To put it another way: The average person can charge their EV for the same amount of power a top-tier gaming PC draws when playing a game =)

Sure.. but for 980Watts you're talking a system with multiple RTX3090 GPUs and a threadripper CPU - and even with that it wouldn't be a 980Watt constant draw, it would spike based on the game and what was happening in the game.

I would be surprised if even half a percent of Americans have that kind of setup. If even 50% of Americans suddenly had that setup and all gamed every night for 10 hours a night, I would expect that would also cause the power grid to have issues.