Live data from Hacker News

M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

daringfireball.net

581–590 of 882 posts

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft does have their own Rosetta, which has been able to run x86 apps for a long time and will be able to run x64 apps within the next few months in preview builds

Microsoft’s solution is emulation, not binary translation. This is a much slower approach than Rosetta. Hopefully this gives MS the kick in the pants it needs to step up their game though.

JIT vs AOT would be better term.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#582
post #529
post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has Intel really had any response even for Ryzen?

Tiger Lake-H and Alder Lake sound pretty good but they haven't been released yet.

Tiger Lake laptop processors have been released and they are competetive with ryzen 4000 mobile processors. All these comparisons of the M1 to 10th-gen intel cpus are quite unfair when the 11th gen 10nm chips are on the market now and have perf characteristics much closer to the M1

Disclosure: I just chose a Ryzen 4500 budget machine, and the 1135G7 is comparable.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#583
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the M1 as a demonstration of the power of modern ARM chips is absolutely unmatched I feel like it's more a demonstration of Apple's competency in vertical integration, cultivating talent, reducing the impact of politics on product/technical quality and ensuring productivity within and between technical teams. Aspects where Intel has abjectly failed and hasn't found any solutions for. Intel has tried repeatedly to p…

Apple is absolutely leading on this front, starting in the phone space. That being said, I don't think their lead over other distributors is especially large. Apple has taken ARM seriously, and built performance chips in their mobile devices that if not for thermal constraints would handily compete with x86 systems. That being said, the same is true of a Snapdragon. Apple ARM, and certainly M1, is better than the com…

I believe Apple has significant advantage to design CPU cores compared to Qualcomm. They acqhired PA Semi team and has been designing great performance cores continuously compared to ARM Cortex (Especially for Single threaded). Qualcomm no longer develop own CPU core since ARMv8 transition.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#584
post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Mac's look like a comfortable unixy environment. Preinstalled zsh, a fast terminal emulator (item), gnu utils. I'm sure I could make it work as a dev machine. I have to admit that m1 macbook air battery life is compelling. A long time ago I was thinking about a perfect laptop that would be very light and have a 20+ hours of battery life. This comes close. Even though I have never used a laptop more than 5 hours…

Thank you. I’m really excited about it. Using a different CPU architecture is always exciting. :) Using Mac is like driving an Audi S8. Comfortable, smooth, powerful. However, it's not your hand tuned Impreza which can read your mind while going above 200Km/h. Even an Intel MacBook pro can go a long time on battery (I have a personal Mid2014, configured all-out). I've developed some system-abusing scientific code on…

> I know macTeX. It doesn't play nice with newer macOS, due to Apple's locks on the OS

I’ve been using LaTeX from /opt/local with zero integration issue, even on Big Sur. What are the issues you’re alluding to?

Otherwise, I agree with your take in general, except that I do everything you do in a Linux VM directly in macOS. I develop and run my codes on a Linux workstation and an iMac, and going back and forth improves the codes a lot. Performance and usability issues are spotted much earlier.

I much prefer Macports’ approach than Homebrew’s. It is nicely self-contained in /opt/local, does not break when a system library is updated, and the file system layout is much saner. Just update your environment in zshrc and you get all the benefits whilst not changing anything for all the stuff that you don’t run in a terminal.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#585
I hear a lot of "all PC laptops are now comparatively a bad deal", which is a real bummer since it's always good for Apple to have competition. If Apple is reserving all of TSMC's 5nm (and probably 3nm) node output, is Samsung a viable competitor?

Does the world of ultra-cheap (i.e. I'm kind of with Gruber that this is a game changer, but what does it mean for the ecosystem?

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I'm not against ARM at all. In fact I have many systems running it :) Raspberries but also a Pinebook. I'm also getting an M1 mini from work. I just don't like the almost-religious overhyping of everything Apple. They're doing a great job. They're not perfect. For example: Moorhead makes a good point IMO. Yes he's talking about software issues. But in the case of Apple, you can't separate those two. The OS doesn't…

> I just don't like the almost-religious overhyping of everything Apple. They're doing a great job. They're not perfect. That may be so, but again that doesn't really apply to the M1's performance as hardware . If the article was about Apple as an investment, or Apple as the designer of the next computer for me, I'd agree that taking into account their software would make sense. But the whole point of the article is…

M1 is really great but I don't like to see the presentation style like "n% faster than top selling laptop!" (What model, workload, situation, etc...?). Please just show benchmark numbers and models.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#587

It's just not true. Ryzen laptops have been available for months for a fraction of the price of a macbook that are just as impressive. https://imagine27.com/rise-of-the-mac-serial-killers

By just as impressive you mean 40% slower based on these benchmarks.

And also 50% of the battery life.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like the people downvoting you to explain why they think it's truly revolutionary. I just went back to reread the Tom's Hardware article on the chip, thinking I must have missed something, and I'm not seeing it. Full credit to Apple for incrementally improving their A-series processors over the last decade until they're good enough for laptops. But I'm not seeing that this makes anything fundamentally differe…

> I would like the people downvoting you to explain why they think it's truly revolutionary. For one, it's the first PC chip with these kind of thermals and power combo. Second, it brings many new design decisions, from unified memory, to the SoC design, various coprocessors, etc, that have not been available in the form of laptop/desktop PCs. The last of this kind in the mass market would be something like the Amiga…

Exactly how is it much better? It's not the first chip with a 15-25W TDP. When compared to other chips with such a TDP, it's incrementally faster in single core and it trades blows in multicore. It does this at a process node ahead.

For very light loads, it does have a slightly better power performance than existing low power PC processors, but not by that much. A Ryzen LPP core is somewhere between the big and the small cores of the M1 in power performance in such cases.

It's not the first PC chip to be an SOC, or to have unified memory, or to have many coprocessors. Literally all of those were done simultaneously, in chips of comparable performance, at the same power.

It's also been a decade that we know that instruction sets don't matter. All modern PC processors use a different instruction set and translate from x86. To switch them to ARM would be a matter of adding a few extensions to expose all the functionality, and change the instruction translation stage a bit.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The published benchmarks are mostly "meh" when it comes to anything at the prosumer level and above. Which makes sense, since those are the lower-speced Mac machines (Mini, Air, 13" Pro). At the level at which they compete (similarly speced Intel Mac sold until recently, Surface machines, PC laptops of the same price) they obliterate them. "meh at the prosumer level" for a consumer level machine is kinda like sayin…

If the 13" Macbook Pro is not for Professional work, then I guess that makes sense.

Depends on the profession.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The threat was regarding emulation. Rosetta 2 isn't emulation, it's translation.

So why does Microsoft go the translation route instead of emulation?

Rosetta 2 is running on an Apple chip which they’ve designed to have an X86 strong memory model mode. Microsoft has to run on off the shelf ARMv8 chips.
Post reply on HN