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Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

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Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#581

Post by timwaagh »

tassl wrote: post #504
lopmotr wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might work if intelligence wasn't important for members of lower castes but was for higher castes, perhaps due to the nature of their culture or work. Then low castes wouldn't select for intelligence but high castes would. Not saying that's what actually happened but it shows that selective pressure could still exist without inter-caste mobility. Stop this nonsense about topics being inappropriate to discuss unles…

>t might work if intelligence wasn't important for members of lower castes but was for higher castes, perhaps due to the nature of their culture or work. Then low castes wouldn't select for intelligence but high castes would. Not saying that's what actually happened but it shows that selective pressure could still exist without inter-caste mobility. This makes absolutely no sense, unless the "not so smart" were not c…

It really depends how things work over there. Castes are associated with jobs and I have seen some articles that some 'teacher' cast has higher intelligence, just like eg ashkenazi jews. It could be that being pretty unsuccesful at your caste-assigned job would have left you unemployed and thus not being able to support a family, thus not being able to marry. thats obviously speculation, of course.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#582

Post by sharmashobhit »

higerordermap wrote: post #534
muzaffarpur wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://admission.aglasem.com/jee-main-cut-offs/ Category JEE Main 2019 Cut Off Common Rank List 89.7548849 Gen EWS 78.2174869 OBC NCL 74.3166557 SC 54.0128155 ST 44.3345172 PWD 0.11371730 Common Rank List = Upper caste SC/ST = lower caste 90 vs 44/54.

The "Indian left" doesn't acknowledge this, and jumps in every discussion to defend the current caste based reservation system that doesn't consider economic status of the candidate. If someone writes JEE, it is likely they have spent a lot for coaching / study materials, and it is likely they don't deserve reservation.

This argument relies on the fact that the concerned person should not rise above ME in status. Perhaps you should look at it as a country and see that the upliftment happens at multiple levels across multiple generations. A person who gets a job as a clerk in the first generation gets his kids the education to make him an engineer. This kid then wants his kid to grow up to be a civil servant.

As it has been mentioned in the thread multiple times, reservation is not an economic upliftment program. It's a social upliftment program to ensure representation at all levels.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#583

Post by timwaagh »

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #243
khrbrt wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evolutionarily, it'd be the other way around. If members of a high caste are guaranteed wealth and many children, then there is no selective pressure for intelligence. Likewise, if lower caste members struggle to survive, then there is a strong selective pressure for intelligence and problem solving.

> If members of a high caste are guaranteed wealth and many children, then there is no selective pressure for intelligence. There absolutely no evidence of some "selective pressure for intelligence" in human societies. Please keep eugenics and similar out of HN.

but there is... the most obvious being that massive energy-inefficient climate-changing head that serves you are using to write that sentence with. It serves no other purpose. There are studies too but the point is infinitely easier to accept if you consider whats right in front of you.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#585

Post by thewileyone »

Ah, the secret is finally exposed to the West.

I worked for a MNC with teams across Asia. I found that teams outside of India were primarily upper-caste because you had to get recommended to be an expat team.

Also, these Indian national upper-caste members would look down on the lower-caste staff in the country that they were working in, using KPIs to force them out of their teams completely.

My division boss, upper-caste, forced me to take on one person that would solve all my team's problems. Long story short, he couldn't fix the problems because the source was with another division, led by another upper-caste.

Now, I'm not saying that they are all bad, but they not all good either. It's sad that the lower-caste don't get the same opportunities though because I met many lower-caste guys who knew their stuff, but knew that they weren't going to go anywhere in their careers.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#586

Post by thewileyone »

NavinF wrote: post #481
lowend wrote: post #214

ITT: (Possibly) "Upper caste" Indians claiming: 1. This is due to a few bad apples 2. Reservation is the real problem (no it's not) 3. I don't do it therefore it doesn't exist I can tell you by experience the amount of concious and unconcious bias regarding caste amongst Indians both in India and abroad is ridiculous! I'm light skinned so people assume I'm "upper caste" and speak with me as such. My last name doesn't…

As a 24yo Indian guy living in the US, I find this comment very confusing. How do I even find out what "caste" I'm in? I've literally never heard that word used in a conversation with other Indian people ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You need to know your great-great-grandfather's name in India. There's a book of names, like a yellow pages, that tracks people and caste.

This is what I've been told when I was in India.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#587

Post by gandutraveler »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #231
higerordermap wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I think US people see caste system as something like skin color based racism in west. Actually it is much more complicated than that. I know people from upper castes who were actually middle class farmers, and those from lower castes that got benefit from quotas even if they were rich[0]. Affirmative action is always bad. Because the people getting benefit of it are likely to be privileged. In this particular l…

> This. I think US people see caste system as something like skin color based racism in west. Actually it is much more complicated than that. Honestly from the arguments I'm seeing in here, it really really isn't. From the perspective of a white guy with almost no understanding whatsoever of the caste system and its politics, I'm seeing exactly the same kinds of arguments here that I find being made by racists.

The only difference being that India has had reservation system for more than half century now and it doesn't work as well. Yes, I know examples where it has actually helped people in need but by vast margin it helps already well off people from underrepresented minorities not the ones in need. This is one of the main reasons why India's medical facilities are sub par and one can't get anything done in govt offices. Also reservation system was meant to be a temporary until we had representation from minorities. We already have achieved that for many minorities yet they still benefit from this.

As someone from fairly higher cast but economically poor family, coming to US felt liberating where I could define & own my success irrespective of my cast, religion. Yes we have problems in US and I've faced discrimination too but it doesn't limit me from succeeding.

We should take this as a learning in US if we were to implement a reservation like system. Have it backed by data on who really needs it not driven by political climate.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#588

Post by gandutraveler »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #360
higerordermap wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I think US people see caste system as something like skin color based racism in west. Actually it is much more complicated than that. I know people from upper castes who were actually middle class farmers, and those from lower castes that got benefit from quotas even if they were rich[0]. Affirmative action is always bad. Because the people getting benefit of it are likely to be privileged. In this particular l…

No, it really is not more complicated. The US has its own implicit systems of discrimination. The white racist from Tennessee is going to be looked down upon by the white racist from Connecticut who will be looked down upon by the white racist with a Central Park apartment. Affirmative action is not "always bad." There are multiple purposes of affirmative action, some of which have NOTHING to do with the individual s…

Isn't it racist when lower cast employee hires another lower cast employee. Arent we trying to stop that very same thing with AA?
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