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US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#581

Post by throw33432 »

hintymad wrote: post #381
tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China.

Did China ban them? I thought they refused to follow China’s censorship laws?

Skype is available in a China.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#582

Post by _lsq »

johncolanduoni wrote: post #560
_lsq wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not "exactly this". The Chinese government sets their (extremely authoritarian) rules on censorship for companies to legally operate in China but the rules apply to everyone equally. Chinese companies of course have to comply, but foreign companies have the choice to comply or not. Google chose to comply initially but decided to pull out later on. Microsoft/Apple choose to comply and are still operating in si…

In the AWS case, the law that AWS was breaking was that they were operating telecom equipment while not being a Chinese company. So I think there’s more symmetry there (though one could argue that there’s at least a uniformly enforceable rule on all foreign companies, unlike the ByteDance case).

Yes, the closest example would be Huawai in this case but the lack of uniformly enforced rules is deafening.

If US were to decide that all telecom equipment used in the US must be produced by domestic companies then that's fair enough.

Going after one specific privately owned company, influencing ally states' purchase decision, banning foreign companies globally from supplying chips is outright bullying and sets the unfortunate precedent that a country could leverage its monopolistic position in tech to stifle competition.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#583

Post by havetocharge »

totony wrote: post #571
alexmingoia wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok is not a national security threat. That’s ridiculous.

How come? Clearly the app is used by the youth. Having gullible youth using the app of a country that's knows for its in-app propaganda is very clearly a national security risk.

Genuinely curious about examples of in-app propaganda as related to Tik Tok.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#584

Post by ethbro »

_lsq wrote: post #539
learnstats2 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels unequal after this was called censorship and anti-democratic, being used as a basis for propaganda against China, for years?

No it's not. The Chinese government sets their (extremely authoritarian) rules on censorship for companies to legally operate in China but the rules apply to everyone equally. Chinese companies of course have to comply, but foreign companies have the choice to comply or not. Google chose to comply initially but decided to pull out later on. Microsoft/Apple choose to comply and are still operating in significant ways…

> The Chinese government sets their (extremely authoritarian) rules on censorship for companies to legally operate in China but the rules apply to everyone equally.

Censorship requirements are the least restrictive Chinese law.

Look at industries where foreign companies are outright restricted (must form non controlling joint venture with local partner) or prohibited from operating in: http://english.mofcom.gov.cn/article/policyrelease/aaa/20120...

See: "Catalogue of Restricted Foreign Investment Industries" and "Catalogue of Prohibited Foreign Investment Industries"

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#585

Post by fiblye »

tobias3 wrote: post #433
ejanus wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if Chinese social media firms are freely operating in the USA why can't the likes of FB and Twitter be allowed same free access in their market. Let's not see this as harming anybody but this is one of the ways to force China to open up and allow foreign businesses(social media) to spread in their domain. Imagine being forced to open a WeChat account just to chat with someone in China. If this kind of business mo…

China does it, so it is okay for us to do it is just a very weak defense of this behaviour for us looking at this from outside of China and the US. The US stood for free markets, democracy and human rights and (at least) pretended to make international decisions based on those values. Now the fig leaf is gone and it is clear that those are mostly used to make transactions to US benefit even if it comes at the cost to…

This is how trade has always worked.

A free market doesn’t exist if a country wants to sell their products cheaply in your country completely untaxed, while taxing your goods to the point of being unattainable. Just like a country can’t reasonably say they deserve unrestrained, free access to your social media market while banning every single product from their country.

A free market means companies compete on their own merits without imbalanced restrictions. This is balancing the restrictions.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#586

Post by throw33432 »

ejanus wrote: post #359
puranjay wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's stopping Volkswagen from lobbying Germany to ban Teslas because all the cameras in it pose a "national security risk"? This is, by all account, a shortsighted move

But if Chinese social media firms are freely operating in the USA why can't the likes of FB and Twitter be allowed same free access in their market. Let's not see this as harming anybody but this is one of the ways to force China to open up and allow foreign businesses(social media) to spread in their domain. Imagine being forced to open a WeChat account just to chat with someone in China. If this kind of business mo…

I recall that FB, Twitter, and Google were all available in China at one point, but they left because they didn’t want to follow China’s information and data laws.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#587

Post by ethbro »

kinnth wrote: post #549
hintymad wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China.

China didn't ban them, they just asked them to play by Chinese Rules. I think it should be the same. Instead of Banning the US should setup what US rules they expect international companies to play by, as should the EU etc.

Nobody in the US has an appetite for forcing TikTok into a 49% joint venture and mandating key escrow.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#588

Post by ookdatnog »

fastball wrote: post #525
ookdatnog wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you claim to stand for free trade, you can't go along in these protectionism wars without losing a lot of credibility and, along with that, soft power.

And you can't operate free-trade style in a world where you have bad actors like China reaping all the benefits while being protectionist and therefore preventing their trade partners from seeing the same benefits. Saying the US should just press forward with free trade is like saying it is X company's fault for failing when the entire reason they fail is because Y company is behaving anti-competitively, and that beh…

Sure, if it were a clearly communicated retaliation to a specific protectionist act of China. But it's not, and it is relevant to consider the context in which this measure happens to understand how this can be perceived.

The current administration has had numerous unproductive scuffles with allies and trading partners to renegotiate trade agreements, after running a presidential campaign on a protectionist platform, promising to return manufacturing jobs to the US.

After these negotiations were largely unsuccessful, close to the next presidential election, the administration abruptly locks in on one of the only globally successful social media companies that isn't US-controlled and insists that it must be purchased by a US-based company in order to continue operations in the US, without even attempting to resolve the issue through regulation. Due to the size of the US market, the company is bound to give in.

Of course, I'm deliberately telling the story in a biased way, but (as someone not from the US) I do feel that the US has been steadily on the way down as a credible defender of the principles of free trade. And this is just one more incident to add to the pile.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#589

Post by LandR »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #556
LandR wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was replied to wrong comment. Sorry!

I did not imply that he wished a civil war on America. I am not sure how you read that in my comment.

Sorry, I replied to the wrong comment!

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#590

Post by Markoff »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #465
Markoff wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they don't, but WeChat is also huge security risk spying on people abroad with access to photos etc., tool used to tax evasion payments within the app etc. for instance you go to chinese restaurant - you can choose to pay legally with card or cash money they have to tax or undocumented untaxed income through wechat

> for instance you go to chinese restaurant - you can choose to pay legally with card or cash money they have to tax or undocumented untaxed income through wechat This sounds like the exact opposite of the truth. Payment through wechat generates records. Payment in cash doesn't.

yeah, records in China inaccessible to IRS, but we are discussing here WeChat ban in US
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