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MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

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Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#581

Post by chungy »

cesarb wrote: post #426
matheusmoreira wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> creating arbitrary directories in / is a terrible idea, and has been at least since I started using UNIX/Linux systems in the 90's Why?

Because the root directory might be on a very small partition (perhaps only a few hundred megabytes), while other mount points like /usr might have more space; the only things which should be in / are the things which are necessary to mount the other filesystems (perhaps through the network using NFS). (Yes, nowadays hard disks are much larger, we have things like initrd, and we now make /bin and /sbin symlinks to wi…

Easy solution: /nix as its own partition with plenty of space.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#582

Post by bproven »

azinman2 wrote: post #480
kristopolous wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been seeing the trajectory of Windows (pre-2012 or so) -> Mac (2012 - ~2019 or so) -> Linux (~2018 - now) play out with quite a few people without any issues. And I don't mean developers. They're all pretty educated people but it's taken me by surprise. They come to me in frustration over Mac, they don't want to return to Windows and they really, really, really want linux. I've been using linux since about 1997…

I recently _really_ tried adopting Linux on a hobby development machine that I built back in 2016 (hardly new hardware -- and desktop not laptop). Sleep never worked, graphics sometimes borked, UI felt janky and inconsistent, icons are super fugly and often too theme-y to the point of being undifferentiated at a glance, HiDPI support is a giant mixed bag (in 2020), machine would randomly freeze (mostly elementOS; Ubu…

Yeah - the hw really has to be curated. I havent tried using a machine cobbled together from various parts (custom desktop), but off the shelf quality laptops work fine for me last 2 years or so and have none of the issues you mentioned. Emphasis on quality - not cheapo models. I think if you treat Linux same as OSX and run it on known good hardware supported well by Linux you are fine today IME

>HiDPI support is a giant mixed bag I will say that this is still a thing, although with experimental gnome fractional support it works pretty well now.

Honestly I have a 2019 macbook pro 15 and have more problems with it than I do with my Thinkpad X1 Carbon 6th gen with Fedora 32.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#583

Post by saagarjha »

wl wrote: post #552
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why, of the two, I prefer Macports.

Also, Macports never phoned home to Google without asking permission or notification, unlike Homebrew.

I'm much happier with their stance on it, too: https://lists.macports.org/pipermail/macports-dev/2019-March...

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#584

Post by jcelerier »

valuearb wrote: post #534
WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call this 'Outsourcing the cost of development to the user'... Getting knowledgeable people costs money so we build more abstractions that lower the cost of development and pass the costs of development from the company to the user in the form of requiring more hardware to do the same thing. How come I need 16Gb of RAM these days when 8Gb did it yesterday? How come my phone needs 4Gb of RAM while my 2012 tablet had…

What’s the point of cheaper disk and ram, and faster systems if not for supporting higher level abstractions?

is this a serious question ?

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#585

Post by FullyFunctional »

kristopolous wrote: post #213
halotrope wrote: post #97

I am using Ubuntu 20.04 on a Thinkpad X1 Extreme Gen2 and you would be surprised how "normal" it feels as a development machine. Sure there some little annoyances, the touchpad behaves a little worse than on windows, sound is a little worse. But the most important things, Keyboard and Screen are excellent. The system in general does not feel like the horror stories that people keep telling about linux on desktop(note…

I've been seeing the trajectory of Windows (pre-2012 or so) -> Mac (2012 - ~2019 or so) -> Linux (~2018 - now) play out with quite a few people without any issues. And I don't mean developers. They're all pretty educated people but it's taken me by surprise. They come to me in frustration over Mac, they don't want to return to Windows and they really, really, really want linux. I've been using linux since about 1997…

True. Amusingly, I was always trying to make Windows behave more like Unix, but now I'm trying to make Linux behave more like Mac (just a few things, like the global keyboard bindings).

The major pain points are nearly all related to lack of integration with my iPhone (with Messages being the big one, followed by Notes).

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#586

Post by Yetanfou »

Nextgrid wrote: post #29
leephillips wrote: post #12

This is completely insane. I am so glad I decided years ago to leave closed operating systems behind. This design seems to cement the trend at Apple to position their products as consumer appliances, not platforms useful for development.

> I am so glad I decided years ago to leave closed operating systems behind. The problem is, there's nothing else out there. Everything is going to shit in one way or another. Windows is now a disaster, Linux was always a disaster in terms of user experience and isn't improving. Mac OS was the last bastion of somewhat good, thoughtful design, user experience and attention to detail and now they've gone to shit too.

> Linux was always a disaster in terms of user experience and isn't improving.

Nonsense, 'Linux' can be what you make it. You can have it as sleek as something straight out of the fruit factory or as spartan as a VT100 and anything in between. If you're new to the game the pre-packaged 'consumer' distributions might be a good starting point but for those with a bit of nix savvy - of which I assume there to be many on this board - those bells and whistles probably just get in the way.

If my 8yo daughter and my 82yo mother can use Linux - the latter through a remote X2go session from her kitchen table in the Netherlands to my server under the stairs in Sweden - I'd say people around here can be assumed to be able to handle it. The nice thing about 'Linux' is that you can change out those parts which you find disagreeable for whatever reason for those you like better, this in contrast to that last bastion of somewhat good, thoughtful design, user experience and attention to detail* which by your own statement has been changed into excrement. Just take out the shitty bits and replace them with something better... oh, no, not possible...

That is why the parent poster is right in this sense, things in 'Linux' land might not be perfect - and can never be 'perfect' since one person's perfection is another's nightmare - but at least you get to do something about it.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#587

Post by saagarjha »

asdff wrote: post #160
saagarjha wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple uses the same tools you do. They just might not be using it like you are; you can find a lot of features that clearly have no reason to exist outside of Apple nonetheless shipping with their software.

Is there a list somewhere of Apple's in house dev environments or workflows? I wonder what cool tricks they use internally that could be pretty useful generally.

Nothing special that can really be talked without internal context. You can get a hint at how they use their own tools though (which are available externally) if you pay careful attention to their public appearances and presentations.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#588

Post by plmu »

robenkleene wrote: post #172
pier25 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IIRC there was no dedicated macOS “task force” like the one on iOS It's not surprising. Macs are less than 10% of Apple's revenue. https://www.macrumors.com/2020/04/30/apple-2q-2020-earnings/

Except all of Apple's other devices are built on macOS. Apple's clear de-prioritization of macOS based on revenue numbers is so insane I can barely believe it's happening. If developers, who use Macs in large numbers today, go to another platform, there's very real risk that their entire empire starts to come apart at the seams. And, this may just be me being naive, but it doesn't seem like that much work to keep mac…

I was thinking exactly this, 8 years ago. I moved from an imac + mbpro to linux only.

It took longer than expected. I even intended to buy put options, but someone I trust told me otherwise and to invest in equity instead, which I did, because I know that most buy decisions are not made rationally.

But it looks like the time has come now? On the other hand, I have been off by several years before. People are crazier than you think, especially when it comes to status and association with brands and self-confirmation of past decisions. They might well put up with Apples moves for a few more years.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#589

Post by FireBeyond »

neuronic wrote: post #332
Nextgrid wrote: post #19

I've been forced to update to this pile of shit because latest iOS requires latest Xcode which in turn requires Catalina. It's a nightmare. First off the new apps (music, podcasts, etc) are terrible. They killed off iTunes but replaced it with much worse. These apps don't behave like standard macOS apps, the UI is full of inconsistencies and is just so empty. This website has nice examples of the failures of modern M…

I share almost all of these issues. What drives me super nuts is the multi-display support which NEVER "just works". I have to disconnect and reconnect USB-C 3 times, turn off the second monitor, switch inputs, restart the €3000 machines twice or whatever. So annoying, how does this pass QA at all? Also, don't setup and use multiple users at the same time. That's really messy as well.

They don't give a shit if you're not using an Apple monitor. Witness the ProDisplay, which doesn't even have a power button, and talks to the computer to turn on.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#590

Post by throwaway851 »

VonGuard wrote: post #553
kccqzy wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OCSP is Online Certificate Status Protocol, generally used for checking the revocation status of certificates. You used to be able to turn it off in keychain access, but that ability went away in recent macOS releases.

Ah, Apple. When you can no longer innovate, just start removing features and call it simplicity...

Another way to look at it is that Apple is making it harder to run the system in an insecure fashion. You may not agree with that decision, but I certainly appreciate how Apple is looking out for the safety and security of the user.

Tangent: as much as some developers hate that the only way to distribute apps for the iPhone is through the App Store, as a user I consider that walled garden of apps to be a real security benefit. When John Gruber says “If you must use Zoom or simply want to use it, I highly recommend using it on your iPad and iPhone only. The iOS version is sandboxed and reviewed by the App Store.” There’s a reason why he can say things like that and it’s because Apple draws a hard line in the sand that not everyone will be happy with.

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