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New iPad Pro with LiDAR Scanner and trackpad support

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Re: New iPad Pro with LiDAR Scanner and trackpad support

#581
post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s not questionable at all, the App Store has been a cornerstone of the iOS security model for years. It's pretty questionable. The most obvious reason iOS has better security than Android is because iOS has far better sandboxing than Android. I don't necessarily dismiss claims that moderation reduces malware, but I am at least skeptical of those claims. I haven't seen compelling statistics that moderation on the…

You see sand boxing and app stores as two different things, but they’re not—the iOS security model relies on this sequence of steps: 1. The application developer creates a manifest that lists the privileges the app wants, and includes it as part of the code-signing request; 2. Apple’s App Store review team audits the application more thoroughly according to the privileges it has claimed; 3. Apple only code-signs the…

You are missing the forest for the trees.

When people talk about app store moderation, they're talking about a moderation team deciding which apps are abusive and which ones aren't. They're not talking about the underlying mechanism of, "there's a system that verifies an app doesn't violate its manifest."

The relevant part of the app store that people in this thread are talking about are the decisions about, "should a specific app that asks for location permissions be allowed on the store?" Code signing doesn't have anything to do with that decision. It's an implementation detail. The important part is not "Facebook is signed to a specific manifest", it's "Facebook's app will be rejected if it's submitted with a manifest that asks for privileges that aren't consumer-friendly."

The decision about which apps are allowed on the store is the part of the App Store that's relevant. When people question whether or not app stores improve security, what they're asking is, "does a centralized malware filter improve security?"

You could have a Gatekeeper model that worked the exact same way as Android, where the Manifest was required and the user confirmed the Manifest. Even in that world, Apple's sandboxing would still be better than Android's, because the capabilities Apple offers in the manifest are more intelligently split up, and can be granted in more limited degrees.

The question is whether Apple's security stats are due to moderation, or largely due to having a better set of permissions. I strongly maintain that there is not enough clear data for anyone to claim that the moderation is objectively the main contributor to those stats.

And that's really the only claim that djsumdog was ever making -- that it's questionable whether every company adding an app store to every platform is actually going to make most people safer.

Re: New iPad Pro with LiDAR Scanner and trackpad support

#582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that it is backlit and because it has power in also adds effectively an additional USB C port, thow in a case and you are well over the top. The current Smart Keyboard Folio + Magic Trackpad 2 is $310.

I guess. I mean but at this point, why not just by a macbook?

Because you can't rip the display off your macbook when you want to browse HN in bed? The convertibility is the point.

Re: New iPad Pro with LiDAR Scanner and trackpad support

#583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does support files on external storage devices now with the USB-C port. It also supports SMB shares, which is great since I keep most of my stuff on a NAS and can access it over my VPN. Developer tools are an obvious weak point, but FWIW I sold my Surface to buy an iPad Pro a few years ago and I'm happier with this. Considering an upgrade from 2016 model (9.7" with lightning) to the new ones. It wouldn't work as m…

Yah.. USB-C, so I carry a dongle with the iPad Pro that I don't have to carry with my Surface Pro. I wouldn't have to buy the dongle cause I already have a great collection of them because I have a USB-C-only MacBook Pro. But I still have bought 0 actual devices that have USB-C. And it's not just external storage devices. It was always such a mess. E.x. with the Camera connection kit on the iPad Pro: - My Canon 5D wo…

If you don’t like dongles, just buy the right cable.

Re: New iPad Pro with LiDAR Scanner and trackpad support

#585
post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got both the Surface Pro and an iPad Pro 10.5. They excel at different things but that is to be expected, they are converging on something else and that was unexpected. When I travel I bring both. I am a heavy user of Cellular connectivity with my iPad Pro. It is my go to device on the road and while travelling, open it up and it just works. It runs a long time on a charge and it has apps that respond quickly fo…

When I go to a place where people are working--an office, a university library, a coffee shop--I see a sea of laptops and no iPads. Even in places such as Stanford libraries, where it is a sea of MacBooks, the people who provably buy lots of expensive Apple products don't buy iPads for work. And iPads have been outselling Macs on a unit basis for a decade, so even people who buy iPads don't seem to find them suitable…

The iPad is useful for certain things. If you're trying to share a document with another person and discuss it, it works much better on an iPad. Both people can hold it, scroll it, etc and it feels much less awkward than discussing things on a laptop.

It's also a bit better than a laptop for digging in and highlighting reading material.

I would not use it as my main PC, though, that's for sure. The apps just aren't there yet.

Re: New iPad Pro with LiDAR Scanner and trackpad support

#586
post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see sand boxing and app stores as two different things, but they’re not—the iOS security model relies on this sequence of steps: 1. The application developer creates a manifest that lists the privileges the app wants, and includes it as part of the code-signing request; 2. Apple’s App Store review team audits the application more thoroughly according to the privileges it has claimed; 3. Apple only code-signs the…

You are missing the forest for the trees. When people talk about app store moderation, they're talking about a moderation team deciding which apps are abusive and which ones aren't. They're not talking about the underlying mechanism of, "there's a system that verifies an app doesn't violate its manifest." The relevant part of the app store that people in this thread are talking about are the decisions about, "should…

IMHO if you had “a Gatekeeper model that worked the exact same way as Android”, then the granularity of the permissions in iOS wouldn’t help you, because developers (and especially malicious developers) would have no incentive to use the fine-grained capabilities.

The only reason anyone bothers with the finickyness of capabilities manifests in the first place, is that Apple forces developers to take exactly the capabilities they need, and rejects apps that ask for more than they need, or ask for capabilities that are too coarse-grained for what they need. Without Apple there to do that human-intelligence-complete task of determining whether an app “needs” the permissions it’s asking for, devs would have a much simpler incentive: to avoid work (and “you must re-approve this app” prompts) by just using as far-reaching of capabilities claims as they can. Just as Android-ecosystem apps do today!

And so you’d have iOS malware that simply asks for permission to rootkit you and then rootkits you (just like on Android), and it wouldn’t look out of place, since everything would ask for those same permissions. (Yes, system-equivalent capabilities like that exist in iOS. Apple doesn’t issue them to third parties, but they exist for the sake of system apps. Without a curator, nothing would stop any random app from putting those root-kit-y capabilities in its list, and then socially engineering people into thinking they were sensible things for said app to need.)

tl;dr: The security of an ecosystem doesn’t just come from its mechanics, but also its economics. If nobody has any reason to “only claim what they need”, then why would they? Right now, Apple (and their rejection of apps that are too coarse-grained in their capabilities requests) is that reason.

Re: New iPad Pro with LiDAR Scanner and trackpad support

#587

I already had an iPad Pro + smart keyboard + pencil once... and got rid of it and switched to a Surface Pro. We still have an old 10" iPad 2 + an older iPad Mini in the house and they get use for typical iPad consumer stuff. When I add up this new iPad in the minimum 128GB/Wifi/11" config this one is about $400 more than I paid for the Surface Pro + KB cover + MS Pen. (Which is i5/8GB/128GB/Wifi-only) The Surface has…

The surface pro can do everything, but for most things the tablet mode experience is somewhere between dismal and unusable. The ipad pro can't do a handful of tasks, but for everything else the experience is excellent in both tablet and laptop mode.

Those things the ipad can't do are largely niche (now that working with files is well supported), and are solvable limitations. The software problem on the surface pro is pervasive and unsolvable. They've done their best, but you can't make every piece of software written for Windows suddenly not require the precision of a mouse or suddenly support navigational gestures.

I had a surface book 2, but got rid of it in favor of an ipad pro after using one for a while. I have a desktop that I use for gaming, but I would have that either way for the sheer power of it.

The only thing that the ipad can't do well that I'd use it for is programming. This is not a dealbreaker for me, as I don't like programming on the go anyway, and if I really needed to then I can remote into a desktop to do it.

Re: New iPad Pro with LiDAR Scanner and trackpad support

#588
post #201

What's up with the CPU? The recent iPhone has A13 Bionic and now, half year latter theier flagship iPad has A12z?! How do both compare?

They actually do that a lot. They usually release A(n)X when there's already an A(n+1) available. Usually, the X version (or in this case, the Z version) is the same architecture as a previous non-letter architecture but with optimized and improved multi-core performance achieved with new components and likely some overclocking. They are also likely optimized to handle workloads differently since they are put in devi…

New iPhones always ship in September with an incremented A series chip. The single exception was the A5, which shipped with the iPad 2 six months before the iPhone 4S.

Apart from the iPad 2, new top-of-the-line iPads have almost always shipped with the existing highest-numbered A series chip in an X variant. The single exception was the first iPad Air, which shipped with a regular A7.

So this is indeed the first time that a new high-end iPad has shipped with a lower-numbered CPU than the most recent iPhone.

Re: New iPad Pro with LiDAR Scanner and trackpad support

#589

I already had an iPad Pro + smart keyboard + pencil once... and got rid of it and switched to a Surface Pro. We still have an old 10" iPad 2 + an older iPad Mini in the house and they get use for typical iPad consumer stuff. When I add up this new iPad in the minimum 128GB/Wifi/11" config this one is about $400 more than I paid for the Surface Pro + KB cover + MS Pen. (Which is i5/8GB/128GB/Wifi-only) The Surface has…

I will definitely get this new iPad Pro (have been waiting for this configuration) but this doesn't contradict your point as, for example, I don't intend to plug much of anything into it. Perhaps an HDMI adaptor or ethernet dongle, both of which I already have for my MB.

By the sounds of the usual complaints my use case is quite uncommon (really I need a fast, multithreaded easy-for-demos device for a specific code base the engine of which runs on Linux/MacOS/iOS). It seems Apple is selling a boatload of iPads so they seem to think that few people want to plug things in. That seems absurd when I talk to my friends, but, well, I'm sure the usage data they get from people (like me) who enable that is telling them otherwise.

As for the Surface: I've seen a couple and the hardware looks quite nice but in terms of weight and usability the MBA has been just fine. I often find myself using my current iPad to do something and then put it down and switch to the laptop. The use cases seem disjoint, partially due to the inherent limitations of each platform vs the other in certain regards, so over the years I've given up on thinking that a unified device would be worth it.

I notice people have commented that some of your objections to the iPad have subsequently been rectified, but the core issues IMHO still remain. Another way to put it is that you now can do many laptop-like things on the iPad but it would hardly be your first choice, especially when it's so easy to switch to another device more adapted to things like filesystem manipulation. But if it's the only device you happen to have on your person you aren't stuck. Maybe Surface can find a way over that hump.

Re: New iPad Pro with LiDAR Scanner and trackpad support

#590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just made my point for me.

Does “proper” in your mind mean “it looks exactly like the desktop version, even if the UI wouldn’t make sense on the platform”?

Proper, as in, as capable as. That is, all the features are there, you can do the same work.
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