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What Will Happen in the 2020s

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Re: What Will Happen in the 2020s

#581

I don’t really buy into 4-6. I don’t see any benefit for a country to turn its currency into a crypto asset. Either they are relinquishing a great deal of control in democratizing their financial system (also exposing themselves to attack), or it’s a crypto in name only that doesn’t seem any better than digital cash through banks except for a buzzword. Decentralization is hit or miss. You get economies of scale with…

I agree with you.

I don't think country is going to give up their control of currency and all those monetary tools that they know for something new. These monetary policies have been evolving base on past mistakes.

I can only see decentralize internet if the world crack down on the internet and put more pressure in it. Or more fragmentation like how bit torrent is rising because there are more streaming services.

Meat is not going anywhere either. China, Korea, etc.. place status and emphasize on meat. It's also ingrain in culture too.

Re: What Will Happen in the 2020s

#582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our evidence from the 20th century shows that the only countries that are successful are democratic. The list of authoritarian countries that crashed and burned is longer than the list of democratic countries that did the same.

Qatar has been doing rather well, I’d say.

Qatar and most middle eastern countries are anomalies in that they have access to the world's most important resource.

Re: What Will Happen in the 2020s

#583
post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla didn't just produce cars that are better for the environment, they made them awesome in every other way as well. as a former tesla owner, i dispute both of these assumptions. > ... lab-grown meat ... tesla builds cars. cars are a recent human invention. cattle on the other hand is a product of millions of years of evolution. i think it will take a bit more time to get lab meat that is as good as the real thin…

On the other hand, those million years of evolution did not select specifically for ”delicious and nutritious”.

It did plus it's healthy (to an extent)

It didn't select to be environmentally friendly. Humans scaled up animal growth fairly recently too, so we hadn't had enough time to figure out pathogen issue and ethics.

Re: What Will Happen in the 2020s

#585
For

"1/ The looming climate crisis will be to this century what the two world wars were to the previous one. It will require countries and institutions to re-allocate capital from other endeavors to fight against a warming planet. This is the decade we will begin to see this re-allocation of capital. We will see carbon taxed like the vice that it is in most countries around the world this decade, including in the US. We will see real estate values collapse in some of the most affected regions and we will see real estate values increase in regions that benefit from the warming climate. We will see massive capital investments made in protecting critical regions and infrastructure. We will see nuclear power make a resurgence around the world, particularly smaller reactors that are easier to build and safer to operate. We will see installed solar power worldwide go from ~650GW currently to over 20,000GW by the end of this decade. All of these things and many more will cause the capital markets to focus on and fund the climate issue to the detriment of many other sectors."

there is an accurate one word summary -- nonsense. With two or more words, even worse than nonsense.

It's time to drive a stake through the heart of this climate change alarmism. We can do a good job just in this little post.

In simple terms, there is no serious evidence that CO2 from human activities at anything like probable concentrations will have any significant effect on the temperature or climate of the earth.

Yes, CO2 is a greenhouse gas, but it is a long logical path from there to any claims of a significant effect.

We need just two steps:

(1) History.

There is NOTHING in the climate history from the present back to about 1 million years ago that supports the idea that anything like realistic concentrations of CO2 from human activities will have any significant effect on temperatures.

(i) For the ice core records going back ~1 million years, yes, both temperatures and CO2 concentrations went both up and down. BUT, if we just look carefully at the big graph in Al Gore's movie, with high irony, that graph totally destroys his claims from that graph: He misread the graph. The main point is that there is an 800 year delay; CO2 concentrations changed 800 years AFTER the temperature changes, from whatever cause.

Specifically: (a) When temperatures started increasing, from whatever cause, CO2 concentrations were LOW, not high. (b) About 800 years later CO2 concentrations were HIGH, from increased biological activity from the higher temperatures. (c) When temperatures started to fall, from whatever cause, CO2 concentrations were still HIGH, not low. (d) The high CO2 concentrations did not keep the temperatures from falling. (e) Once the temperatures fell, about 800 years later so did CO2 concentrations. Net, CO2 did not cause the higher temperatures or keep the higher temperatures from falling.

(ii) In the last 2000 years we had the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age, and there is no suggestion that CO2 concentration changes caused either.

(iii) Starting in the 1940s and through about 1970, we actually had some significant cooling, but in those years CO2 from human activities -- WWII, pulling of the Great Depression, and the economic boom after WWII -- increased. So, we got COOLING, not warming, with the additional CO2 from human activities.

Net, there is NO data from the historical record that supports the claim that higher CO2 will cause higher temperatures.

(2) Yes, CO2 is a greenhouse gas. The absorption spectrum is at

https://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/cbook.cgi?Spec=C124389&Index=0&...

So, CO2 absorbs in three narrow bands, one for each of bending, stretching, and twisting of the molecule, out in the infrared.

No, Tom Friedman of the NYT: CO2 does not absorb sunlight, and anyone can confirm this by looking at a source of CO2, e.g., exhaling or the bubbles from soda pop, and simply observing that the CO2 is not visible and does not cast a shadow.

So, the theory has been that the CO2 warms the planet. Then there has been

ALARMIST CLAIM: Extra CO2 from current human activities will soon cause significant extra warming and, thus, "climate change", a "climate crisis", etc.

Since the historical record can't support the ALARMIST CLAIM, we have to rely on the theory based on the absorption spectrum of CO2 and computation.

Well the computations were done by dozens of teams, and the results are summarized in

http://www.energyadvocate.com/gc1.jpg

Net, as in this graph, nearly all the computations predicted rapid, significant increases in temperatures soon. Well the time of predicted increases came and went with no sign of anything like the predicted increases.

In science, when predictions are made and found to be false, we junk the science.

No doubt, the failures in that graph are some of the worst in all the history of science. GOOD science, e.g., the hunt for and finding the Higgs boson at the LHC (Large Hadron Collider), the observations that confirmed the predictions of black holes, many other confirmed predictions of special and general relativity, the A-bomb, the H-bomb, the design of the Hubble telescope, to the quantum mechanics in semi-conductors that are the core of current digital electronics, the science was just rock solid.

We are just awash in super solid science, and the global warming computations in that graph are just a humiliation of anything scientific and just sick.

So, for the ALARMIST CLAIM, there is no scientific support.

For more there is the video documentary The Great Global Warming Swindle at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52Mx0_8YEtg

there see (A) the remarks of MIT Professor R. Lindzen on (i) why any warming we might be getting now cannot be from CO2 and (ii) the huge pile of money that didn't just buy off the climate scientists but HIRED the climate alarmists pretending to be climate scientists, maybe 10 times more alarmists than real scientists.

Also that documentary argues that the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age were caused by variations in the rates of sun spots. More sun spots increase the solar wind which, from more links in a causal chain, in the end slows cloud formation and has a net warming effect.

So, since both (1) history from ~1 million years ago to the present and (2) the computations based on CO2 being a greenhouse gas fail to support the ALARMIST CLAIM, we have no scientific support or even meaningful evidence for the ALARMIST CLAIM or the proposed very expensive reductions in carbon, etc.

In this case and quite generally, if we are willing to go forward with big, expensive changes without good evidence, then we leave ourselves open to some of the worst mistakes in all of civilization.

One current example of such mistakes is killing off the rhinoceroses to get their horns for use in Chinese medicine.

For another such mistake, there is from page 76 of

Susan Milbrath, Star Gods of the Maya: Astronomy in Art, Folklore, and Calendars (The Linda Schele Series in Maya and Pre-Columbian Studies), ISBN-13 978-0292752269, University of Texas Press, 2000.

with

"Indeed, blood sacrifice is required for the sun to move, according to Aztec cosmology (Durian 1971:179; Sahaguin 1950 - 1982, 7:8)."

That is the Mayan charlatans killed people to pour their blood on a rock to keep the sun moving across the sky. No doubt the sun actually did keep moving across the sky.

If we go forward with the Green New Deal, the Paris Accords, carbon taxes, etc. we are making a mistake as irrational as in the Chinese medicine and the Mayans.

Warning: It appears that now the sun is entering the part of the 11 year or so sunspot cycle with fewer sun spots. So, we are in line for a few years of cooling.

So, don't believe a claim of the global warming alarmists that their efforts caused the cooling.

At this point, continuing with entertaining the ALARMIST CLAIM is just nonsense, expensive nonsense.

Re: What Will Happen in the 2020s

#586
> 6/ Plant based diets will dominate the world by the end of the decade. Eating meat will become a delicacy, much like eating caviar is today. Much of the world’s food production will move from farms to laboratories.

Before refrigeration, a considerable amount of meat on the market was spoiled, with a horrible taste as well as a horrible aftertaste. The price was much higher than today. You had to use a sauce to make it more palatable.

It would have made sense to go vegan back then, but no. People are more willing to eat spoiled, expensive meat with mold rather than going plant-based.

Re: What Will Happen in the 2020s

#587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This needs a huge asterisks at the end of it right? You could argue that plant based diets already dominate the world. Now if he's claiming that "muscular" foods that are produced in a lab will pound for pound outsell animal based meat I would happily take that bet against him. This seems to be one of those issues that is likely to flip very quickly. I suspect there will be two cut-of points (making no prediction on…

A possibly even more significant milestone would be when the best lab-grown or hybrid lab-grown/plant-based meat tastes better than the best natural meat. This seems like something that should be possible, possibly within a decade given recent trends.

You overestimate greatly how much people care what they eat.

Re: What Will Happen in the 2020s

#588

For "1/ The looming climate crisis will be to this century what the two world wars were to the previous one. It will require countries and institutions to re-allocate capital from other endeavors to fight against a warming planet. This is the decade we will begin to see this re-allocation of capital. We will see carbon taxed like the vice that it is in most countries around the world this decade, including in the US.…

Some anonymous viewer voted down this post.

This post was very carefully written by a STEM field Ph.D. from a world class research university and is solid science and not politics.

If you have a rational argument, then make it.

Else it appears that HN has some dedicated climate alarmists who attack anything that questions their orthodoxy. Such behavior is political and against the Hacker News rules.

Re: What Will Happen in the 2020s

#589
post #416

So, I have a problem with a large number of these points. Each point alone requires a long rebuttal that no one would read. I think Fred is way off here. The bullet points: 1. There will be no global change in human behaviour and activity that is against the short term interests of those people. Period. The way to replace fossil fuels with renewables is by them being a cheaper source of power. We're well on the way h…

I don't think he knows enough about any of these things to make big predictions. He should stick to his day job. Not that I'm better, but I see these themes come across from my wide selection of Twitter followers and regularly see highly convincing arguments which would go against them. And that's no me seeking out an answer, it's just scrolling.

Re: What Will Happen in the 2020s

#590
post #499
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone from the UK who has tended to eat meat a lot in the past - I do agree with your reading of culture in the UK historically. But I also think it's remarkable how quickly public opinion in the UK has been shifting with regard to environmental concerns. Traveling by train as opposed to air travel, reduction of single-use plastics and plastic packaging, and reduced-meat diets all feel like much more common disc…

1. trends come and go. 2. we all live in our bubbles. both meat consumption and air travel have increased YoY over the past 25 years in the UK. and sticking with the UK, current estimates point to an almost 100% increase in air passenger numbers in the 2030s, and Heahtrow still being in the top ten busiest airports in the world. anecdotally, my flights have increased 2x every year for the past 5 years. this year it's…

Good food for thought, thanks.

From a little more digging to try to break out of my bubble, here are some reading references:

Of beef, pork, lamb, poultry, and fish -- only poultry has seen any broad increase in expenditure by UK households over the past few years (and slim, at 2%); all others have decreased or remained the same[0]. I'm not claiming that's related to environmental concerns directly but it shows some changes in behaviour.

Air travel passenger numbers are certainly on the rise[1], although interestingly the number of flights ('air travel movements') appears to be somewhat more muted. Even so, greenhouse gas emissions from aviation have certainly increased a lot since the 1990s.

Brexit and the prospect of a high-spending majority UK government could both have impacts on these over the next decade, no doubt - but in what direction I'm not sure.

[0] - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/food-statistics-p...

[1] - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

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