SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships • Hacker News Board

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#581

Post by learc83 » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:29 AM UTC

lenkite wrote: post #545

learc83 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your parents making a sacrifice isn't the same thing as you making a sacrifice. If my dad makes a sacrifice by working 100 hours a week to buy me a Maserati, the car is definitely a privilege not something I earned. And yeah, I may have lost out on spending time with my dad, but that wasn't a choice I made, so while it cost me something it wasn't a sacrifice on my part.

For many Asian-American's their children's education is a dream that they plan out and sacrifice for so that their kin can have better opportunity than what they managed for themselves. Many are tightly knit families where children look after parents or other close family members later in life. To penalise and denigrate the efforts of such families as "privilege" is awful.

Many White, Black, and Hispanic families do the same thing. It's not denigrating that sacrifice to acknowledge that being born into cohesive, supportive family that values hard work is a privilege that many poor children do not have.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#582

Post by esyir » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:30 AM UTC

zimablue wrote: post #242

fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’m getting pushed further and further to the right. Maybe not, it feels like to me that the Overton window[0] has been sliding left. My views on freedom of speech made me a 'leftist commie' when I used them to defend South Park and Eminem now most often I'm accused being 'alt-right' by those who disagree with those same views. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

Specifically on freedom of speech, the left and right oscillate tons based on who is feeling more authoritarian (the other axis). A small, very vocal portion of the identity-politics left is currently very authoritarian and anti freedom of speech but I think that's a specific current internet-influenced trend and not to do with a wider shift of the overton window on issues in general.

I agree with you on the internet-influenced part, but not on the latter portion of your argument. Even if the anti-free speech movement is small, the majority of "left-aligned media" do echo their beliefs. This to me does swing the overton window to the left.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#583

Post by aj7 » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:31 AM UTC

Hopefully some poor Queens Asians will now get >800 scores in math.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#584

Post by lenkite » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:31 AM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #581

lenkite wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many Asian-American's their children's education is a dream that they plan out and sacrifice for so that their kin can have better opportunity than what they managed for themselves. Many are tightly knit families where children look after parents or other close family members later in life. To penalise and denigrate the efforts of such families as "privilege" is awful.

Many White, Black, and Hispanic families do the same thing. It's not denigrating that sacrifice to acknowledge that being born into cohesive, supportive family that values hard work is a privilege that many poor children do not have.

I guess we will have to disagree. When you are penalizing such efforts, you are most certainly denigrating them.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#585

Post by aj7 » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:32 AM UTC

rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

Totally agree. 40 years ago I did integrals on the way home on the Subway from Stuyvesant. Totally support you.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#586

Post by andrepd » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:33 AM UTC

manfredo wrote: post #353

bilbo0s wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, no dog in this race obviously, but doesn't that mean that instead of penalizing you for your parents' good character, we penalize poor rural and urban kids for their parents' bad character?

Not exactly. This adversity score penalizes people who good character (insofar as making sacrifices to provide better education opportunity for ones' kids is good character). Family A makes $X and goes through significant sacrifices (e.g. commuting 4 hours) to live in a wealthy neighborhood with good schools. Family B makes the same $X and lives a leisurely live in a cheap neighborhood with bad schools. Which should…

>Which should have a better chance of succeeding? This adversity score says family B deserves a bonus over family A.

No, it does not say that it deserves a bonus _over_ family A. It deserves that that circumstance (a circumstance of the parents, not the kid!) is taken into account to close the gap somewhat.

Family B gets a triple mushroom, basically, and family A a green shell.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#587

Post by manfredo » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:34 AM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #569

manfredo wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's just religious discrimination cloaked in something less intolerable: academic elitism. I don't necessarily agree with tossing such resumes in the garbage, but it is evidence that universities that enforce religious dogma on their students do suffer a hit to their reputation because of that. > how do you explain the strong performance (and reputation) of private institutions vs. "state schools"? Not every pri…

I think the both of you are conflating a multitude of separate topics. Private schools tend to have strong reputations because of legacy reputations, and wealthy alumni funding. Freedom of speech is unlikely to be related. Berkeley and Stanford are both examples of very famous schools with distinct (and sometimes contrasting) cultures. They do not necessarily correlate to supporting/not supporting freedom of speech.…

The above commenter wrote:

> But to your broader point, that freedom of expression yields greater institutional cache: how do you explain the strong performance (and reputation) of private institutions vs. "state schools"?

as a way of insinuating that freedom expression is not important to institutional reputation because private schools (which aren't required to abide by the first amendment) are often very reputable, frequently moreso than public schools.

This is question loaded in false premises. Reputable private schools do support freedom of speech and expression to similar degrees as public schools. And not to mention, the claim that private schools are on aggregate better than public schools is likely untrue.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#588

Post by djtriptych » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:35 AM UTC

rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

Your intact family sticking together for your childhood and making a sustained sacrifice for your benefit already represents several awesome advantages many, many, many kids will never enjoy.

You didn't eat out much so... home cooked meals most nights? You lived in a good school district? You had parents and/or other family as a support structure for 12 years? You had a dad?

Imagine having none of those things.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#589

Post by ausjke » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:36 AM UTC

ryanobjc wrote: post #491

ausjke wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free lunch, low-income pays no incoming tax(47% and more of them), food stamps, disabled benefits, medicare medicaid, CHIP for kids, etc etc, I'm fine so far. But AA for college admission(and jobs too these days)? followed by SAT score manipulation? this is literally pushing me to the far right side, it makes me feel hard working, sacrificing for next generation made no sense, this is getting close to robbery. what's…

Far to the right side at this point is basically the idea that some races are better than others. Really? Is that what you really mean? Because if you come at me being proud of the color of your skin, I’ll know you have nothing better in your life.

not really, color-based AA admission is the true racist, I'm just emphasizing merit-based results no matter what your skin color is, the equalize-every-result is going way too far.

Do you know each year how many of those AA students dropped out? I am sure we will have a solution soon, that is each college will give adversity-GPA-for-college-degrees-by-skin-color, all must be good.

But I don't want to be treated by an AA doctor myself! The richest and the poorest are rare, let the majority students shine by hard working, that's the best gift we can give them instead of cut-in-line because their skin color difference, which is truly racism.

Last, we probably should look into NBA, too few white and Asian there, how racist they are!

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#590

Post by aj7 » Fri, May 17, 2019, 3:36 AM UTC

thosakwe wrote: post #328

rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

> Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. So, a separate number being added to College Board's overall package is secret discrimination against Asian students? The "adversity score," according to the article, is calculated based on 15 different factors. The two listed (relative quality of the student’s high school and the crime rate/poverty level of the student’s home neighborhood) are not directly tied to…

No. I’m an MIT SB and Berkeley PhD and I will tell you engineers never made a living in the US until around 2000 (fiberoptics and Netscape boom). The “right” will snatch that right back.