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Google Is Eating Our Mail

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Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#581

Post by mr_toad »

wingworks wrote: post #503
cpeterso wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment motivated me to check my Gmail spam folder and 10% (3 out of 30) were false positives, two of which were pretty important. :(

I've recently started checking quite regularly my spam folder as I've noticed more and more legit emails ending up there. One of them being support emails from TradeMe (one of New Zealand's biggest sites), keep getting put into spam, even after multiple "mark as not spam", along with some other kinda important emails from TradeMe. I've had to put in manual filters to force an email from TM to skip the spam.

TradeMe, like eBay and Banks is a popular target of phishing emails.

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#582

Post by Buge »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #451
khawkins wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm now regularly seeing search results bury political pages which seem to run counter bay area political views. I'll search the terms on Bing and DuckDuckGo and the page I'm expecting will be the first hit, but on Google it'll be on page 3 or 4. Clearly they keep the hit in the search results for plausible deniability, but they're trying to influence people by suppressing speech. Given that Google is becoming synony…

>I’m now regularly seeing search results bury political pages which seem to run counter bay area political views. This has been a well known occurrence. I’m think about all those pictures of “Hillary Clinton is” [0] typed into each search engine and Google was polar opposite of all others. I think one needs to be pretty obtuse to not see Google is “curating” results to fit an ideology. Everyone should be mad at that…

Google has milder suggestions for Donald Trump, just like for Hillary Clinton:

https://i.imgur.com/0KkKTpJ.png

> can someone find me another phrase besides "Hillary Clinton" that "breaks" the search fill when "is" gets added?

Jeb Bush:

https://i.imgur.com/xrxrEy2.png

https://i.imgur.com/f9OBDDH.png

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#583

Post by dredmorbius »

prlambert wrote: post #183
reaperducer wrote: post #8

Google has no incentive to fix these kinds of problems. It's big enough that when someone complains that a message sent wasn't received, the intended recipient will say, "I never have problems with my Gmail account. It must be you." And the sender has to switch to Gmail to reliably communicate with the outside world. I wish this was just paranoia, but we've seen multiple discussions on HN about Google programs and po…

I'm one of the PMs for Gmail and hang around HN quite a bit. This is my personal take, not an official reply. It's simply not true we have no incentive to fix this. Here are a few: Firstly, Gmail's success is entirely predicated on the health of the global email ecosystem. Gmail does not, inherently, have any network effects (unlike FB, messengers, any other comms tool of Gmail's scale). Email itself, of course has a…

NB: Google absolutely has network effects, and those are to an nth approximation its entire value.

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#584

Post by kiike »

theWheez wrote: post #297
OldSchoolJohnny wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Difficult to host smtp?! That's absolutely not true and has never been true. It's difficult to configure and set up in the first place but after that it's just updating. Source: personal experience for decades.

Any tips for somebody looking to move to my own smtp server? It's been on my mind a few months, and I want to move away from gmail to my own server or to another service, preferably one I pay for.

I personally use OpenSMTPd for SMTP and Dovecot for IMAP. For spam filtering Rspamd does the job perfectly.

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#585

Post by slacka »

dingus wrote: post #299
prlambert wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the PMs for Gmail and hang around HN quite a bit. This is my personal take, not an official reply. It's simply not true we have no incentive to fix this. Here are a few: Firstly, Gmail's success is entirely predicated on the health of the global email ecosystem. Gmail does not, inherently, have any network effects (unlike FB, messengers, any other comms tool of Gmail's scale). Email itself, of course has a…

I appreciate the response. From someone who has operated a mail server since 2002, it comes across that Gmail does not care about cooperating with small but legitimate mail servers. SPF, DKIM, reverse DNS, no blacklists, no open relay, longtime ownership of IPs, etc etc. Using various mail testers returns a 10/10 deliverability score. And yet, messages sent to Gmail always go into the spam folder, or are never delive…

First of all, if you check this site:

https://toolbox.googleapps.com/apps/checkmx/check?domain=tab...

It is not to be set up correctly.

Now in your case, you failed to mention DMARC records. ALL of the big cloud email services have required that for years. Your SMTP server checklist is straight out of 2005.

This entire thread reminds me of the guy who pulled out of a desk drawer an Analog Startac cell phone and blamed AT&T for it not working. Email has moved on. It not Google's fault that people are configuring SMTP servers like it 2005.

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#586

Post by StudentStuff »

ljm wrote: post #367
thaumasiotes wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had gmail send the following to the spam folder: - Legitimate class action notices related to Amazon purchases. - Email coming from addresses to which I had already sent email. (!) - Email from my landlord. - Email coming from Google itself. Based on the contents of my spam folder, which I have to check fairly often because of the extreme overaggressiveness, I would be vastly better off if nothing ever got filte…

Before I switched to fastmail, gmail would not believe me when I marked an email as not-spam. They would still get flagged. All I wanted was updates from one band. That didn’t stop me from repeatedly getting junk from every other record label my email was sold to. It was an endless procession of shit I never subscribed to.

"Inboxing" with Gmail & Outlook is a baroque, hellish process for mailservers.

When either provider decides your small email server is sending spam (eg: sending an email with an attachment, or any kind of form email like a daily report) you won't get through to user inboxes, and instead you'll be routed to spam, or for Outlook.com hosted addresses they will accept mail from your server and send it to /dev/null. Gmail's process is bad, but Microsoft has decided to accept emails and throw them away (which is ridiculous).

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#587

Post by ma2rten »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #322
dingus wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the response. From someone who has operated a mail server since 2002, it comes across that Gmail does not care about cooperating with small but legitimate mail servers. SPF, DKIM, reverse DNS, no blacklists, no open relay, longtime ownership of IPs, etc etc. Using various mail testers returns a 10/10 deliverability score. And yet, messages sent to Gmail always go into the spam folder, or are never delive…

I've had gmail send the following to the spam folder: - Legitimate class action notices related to Amazon purchases. - Email coming from addresses to which I had already sent email. (!) - Email from my landlord. - Email coming from Google itself. Based on the contents of my spam folder, which I have to check fairly often because of the extreme overaggressiveness, I would be vastly better off if nothing ever got filte…

- Email coming from addresses to which I had already sent email. (!)

That is understandable. It is hard to validate if an email is authentic. SMTP has no authentication built in. Gmail can't just blindly accept all emails from addresses that you have already sent an email to.

EDIT:

Look at this example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Mail_Transfer_Protocol#...

Anyone can connect to relay.example.com and pretend to be bob@example.com.

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#588

Post by 0xb100db1ade »

fataliss wrote: post #551
jbergstroem wrote: post #59

I'm also one of those oldfarts that insists on hosting my private emails for me and a few friends. I've owned the ip since early 2000's and have had zero "spam"/blacklist incidents. One trend I've been noticing is that Microsoft/Outlook have regularly started to block me. I have to contact their abuse which takes a day or so to get unblocked. To date, I've done so >10 times: hotmail-com.olc.protection.outlook.com[104…

Ever tried https://protonmail.com/ ? I wonder if they face the same kind of challenged?

I've never gotten spam nor have my ProtonMail emails marked as spam. Lucky me

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#589

Post by bdhess »

ma2rten wrote: post #587
thaumasiotes wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had gmail send the following to the spam folder: - Legitimate class action notices related to Amazon purchases. - Email coming from addresses to which I had already sent email. (!) - Email from my landlord. - Email coming from Google itself. Based on the contents of my spam folder, which I have to check fairly often because of the extreme overaggressiveness, I would be vastly better off if nothing ever got filte…

- Email coming from addresses to which I had already sent email. (!) That is understandable. It is hard to validate if an email is authentic. SMTP has no authentication built in. Gmail can't just blindly accept all emails from addresses that you have already sent an email to. EDIT: Look at this example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Mail_Transfer_Protocol#... Anyone can connect to relay.example.com and pretend…

Huh? If it's in the Spam folder, they do accept it.

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#590

Post by ma2rten »

bdhess wrote: post #589
ma2rten wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Email coming from addresses to which I had already sent email. (!) That is understandable. It is hard to validate if an email is authentic. SMTP has no authentication built in. Gmail can't just blindly accept all emails from addresses that you have already sent an email to. EDIT: Look at this example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Mail_Transfer_Protocol#... Anyone can connect to relay.example.com and pretend…

Huh? If it's in the Spam folder, they do accept it.

I meant accept as not spam.
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