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Women: Learn to Program This Summer

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Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#581
post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you stop please stop posting unsubstantive comments and ideological flamebait to HN? Your comments in this thread have been well below the standard HN users are asked to stick to, and even well below the median comment in this pretty bad thread. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

No, I will speak the truth as I know it and so should everyone else, now more than ever.

Any truth you have to offer can be expressed without violating the site guidelines.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#582

I have several female friends who find Affirmative Action campaigns so off-putting, they decide against joining the industry. One friend recently complained to me that all the AA enthusiasts just want to talk about feminism and women in the workplace, and not about actually writing code. She was incensed because she was invited to a 'Girls Code' meetup, where women would learn about algorithms by modelling their own…

I am also a woman and feel similarly, although it didn't deter me from working in the industry (or at least adjacent to it).

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#583

I have several female friends who find Affirmative Action campaigns so off-putting, they decide against joining the industry. One friend recently complained to me that all the AA enthusiasts just want to talk about feminism and women in the workplace, and not about actually writing code. She was incensed because she was invited to a 'Girls Code' meetup, where women would learn about algorithms by modelling their own…

I am also a woman and feel similarly, although it didn't deter me from working in the industry (or at least adjacent to it).

Thanks for chiming in. I’m not a woman, but I think it’s important to highlight these opinions because people like you and my friends do exist, although you’d never think it from the typical discourse on this topic.

From the discussion/debate I’ve had in the past, I perceive a strong overlap between people who would aggressively dismiss these women’s opinions, and also people who say we should “just listen to women”.

I have no agenda to push women into tech specifically, but coincidentally most of the people I have mentored and brought into tech have been women. This is likely because I’m in tech, and I’ve always spent more time with women. It puts me in an awkward position when I encourage a woman to attend an event like Rails Girls (which I had heard is an excellent experience for women), and then that woman comes back and says she hated it, and that very few of the women there actually wanted to do any programming, and that most of them just wanted to talk about gender politics.

In any case, I’m glad you weren’t deterred.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#584
post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Posting trollish flamebait will get you banned here. Please don't break the guidelines by complaining about downvotes either. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Thanks for your tireless efforts to keep HN clean and welcoming. I will be voicing the same idea in non-flamebait form in the future. Don't you think that you've changed my mind by shutting me up.

Nobody's out to "shut you up". You're only asked to follow the same basic, reasonable rules that everyone else is: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#585
post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WSY: “It seems that we mainly disagree about what constitutes discrimination. In my opinion, it is about opportunities. When 90% of the developer jobs are performed by men, it is really hard for me to see how men as a group can be disadvantaged.” If e.g. 95% of the qualified people are men, but only 90% of the accepted applicants (just making up numbers here) then clearly there is discrimination against men. Outcome…

I agree that your hypothetical is possible. However, in a field where men occupy 90% of all positions, I still find it hard to imagine that they discriminate against their own group, i.e. treat their fellow males "in a worse way from the way in which you treat other people" ( https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/discrimi... )

I wasn’t the one claiming discrimination against men, and I don’t think it comes much from other employees. I will say that at every place I’ve worked men have been much more welcoming and helpful towards women than men, but as an okd-fashioned conservative I think that’s as it should be.

It’s undeniable that formal discrimination against men is common though, with lots of “women can code” programs and similar. Only last week PGs wife launched some initiative to pay women to go to some code camp, that jind of thing is very common. If you don’t think that is discrimination imagine it was exclusively for men or white people.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#586
post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I will speak the truth as I know it and so should everyone else, now more than ever.

Any truth you have to offer can be expressed without violating the site guidelines.

I doubt it. You don't like what I say so you apply the strictest standard while OP is clearly ideological but yet, magically, not flagged or so very helpfully nitpicked on style.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#588

My girlfriend, a nurse of 10+ years, just started learning to code on her own, built her first (basic) website ( https://www.nataliepeterson.dev ) and is applying to Lambda School already. I sent this to her this morning and she was elated. Programs like this really work.

My girlfriend is in an incredibly similar position, shes an embryologist pursuing a CS degree, but it's at a super old traditional school and their tech isn't sexy web dev javascript type tech.

Do you or your girlfriend have any advice for her? A good tutorial or course or book that's been really helpful to your girlfriend and can help mine ship something soon?

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the company is openly discriminating then?

Openly... I'm not so sure. In our all hands meeting our head of HR consistently denies that diverse candidates are treated differently. When the Damore memo was sent out one of our senior VPs of engineering explicitly denied preference for diverse candidates. But we do have tools for recruiters to cross reference applicant names with the US census bureau's data to infer race and gender. We give recruiter bigger bonus…

It's like we have given HR an a goal, namely diversity, that's easier to measure and doesn't require the technical knowledge of measuring skill, I can see how that gets very popular, very fast.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#590
I can tell you that my female, former classmates that graduated CS are earning way more than the males do. It's trivial to get a male developer with a 5-year degree, but a female one? If media focused on that instead of the negative things, more females would go into the CS-programmes, which would solve this debate once and for all.
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