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Why are glasses so expensive? The eyewear industry prefers to keep that blurry

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581–590 of 610 posts

Re: Why are glasses so expensive? The eyewear industry prefers to keep that blurry

#581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason glasses cost so much is because one company owns: (1) nearly all brand name frames including Ray-Ban, Oakley, Prada eyewear, Armani eyewear and so on, (2) nearly all retail stores such as LensCrafters, Pearle Vision, Sears Optical and Target Optical and (3) EyeMed, one of the largest vision insurance companies. The vast majority of my glasses' cost is the lenses, last time around they cost me >$200 each…

That cost too is highly inflated. My wife has a crazy bad eyes/strong prescription and she was able to get glasses including frames for under $70 from Zenni. If you're paying $400 for just lenses, you're badly over-paying.

> That cost too is highly inflated. My wife has a crazy bad eyes/strong prescription and she was able to get glasses including frames for under $70 from Zenni.

It's a combination of prescription and comfort: I have a strong prescription, thinned lenses, and because I'm pretty sensitive to light (clear eyes) photochromic and AR. Possibly a few other bits I don't remember.

I'm not saying there's no inflation, but going on zenni with my old prescription (and trying to roughly match the options / add-ons) still yields lenses around $200, and I got my current glasses almost 5 years ago.

Re: Why are glasses so expensive? The eyewear industry prefers to keep that blurry

#582
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure where did you get the amount of 70$ per exam. My OD charges approx 258$ which was reimbursed by VSP . I know this since he sent a bill to me after exam that showed what the cost of visit was and what was covered by VSP .

Disclaimer: my wife is an optometrist (in the US). My guess is what you're seeing is a bit of a misrepresentation. My wife would be thrilled if VSP (or any other vision insurance) reimbursed even near that amount. You might be seeing a statement that the insurance plan saved you a certain amount (the standard price of the exam), but the optometrist is not making that money. Instead, what they do is if the doctor want…

> We all wish things we buy were cheaper, however the cost/value proposition on glasses is not that bad when you think of it this way. The final decision on how to spend your money is up to you, as the consumer, in the end.

I find this opinion to be abhorrent when applied to durable medical devices and medical treatment. Eyeglasses are a vision prosthetic, not an optional purchase. Many people must have at least one pair in order to function normally in society. If you're rent-seeking on that necessity, that makes you a parasite. If you're providing it at or below cost, that makes you a living saint.

~~These prosthetic legs will allow you to walk again. We have decided to charge you only slightly more than you can possibly afford for them. The difference will likely be made up by a charity of some sort, funded by people who would rather pay us to help you walk again than spend the exact same amount on independently making prosthetics and giving them away. But walking is so incredibly valuable in one's daily life, that the cost/value proposition is really not that bad for you. You're only paying us everything you have, in order to live like a normal person, and we also get to use your hard-luck story to suck some more money out of a few chumps that feel sorry for you, or maybe the government. We all wish things we buy were cheaper. You, of course, also have to option to scoot yourself around on an old furniture dolly with a junked riding-lawnmower seat strapped onto it with zip-ties. The final decision on how to spend your money is up to you.~~

Optometrists and ophthalmologists should cartelize ASAP, and erect a firewall between their eye exams and the opticians and eyeglasses manufacturers. If every supplier of eyeglasses prescriptions were to refuse to conjoin themselves to an optician business, Luxottica and VSP and their ilk could not extract money from that portion of the industry that supplies the most value. If I would pay $10 for an exam (copay, with VSP) and $120 for just one pair of glasses (from Luxottica, even after VSP allowance), I would almost certainly be willing to pay ~$200 (or $20/month) for a 30-min annual exam (direct to optometrist, without VSP), and 1-4 pairs of glasses at ~$40 apiece (from someone other than Luxottica). Pay the optometrist $50-80 per exam, and the rest on business overhead and support staff. Current US average is about 1800 patients per optometrist. So the cartel can refuse to sanction more than 1 member per 6000 in the local population, which sets a floor of about 1500 patients per optometrist, if they all distribute evenly.

So an average optometrist, in an average town, charging cartel prices, should be able to clear $100k per year personally, seeing an average of 6.5 patients a day, while still taking 4 weeks vacation, working only weekdays, and taking 9 holidays, while providing $250k to support their own business. That can probably support a $70k business manager, and a decent independent office--with no frame showroom taking up most of the usable space. Maybe also a lower-paid assistant. This is very reasonable for a profession which requires post-graduate education. There is no particular reason why an optometrist with two employees should not be able to operate as a small business, without also having to also sell overpriced eyeglasses, other than the manufacturer monopolist putting the squeeze on them, by paying some optometrists to put the rest out of business if they don't agree to join the scheme. Luxottica doesn't need to be the cartel enforcer; optometrists could create their own, and use it to benefit themselves--and maybe also the patients, just a little.

Re: Why are glasses so expensive? The eyewear industry prefers to keep that blurry

#583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my glasses prescription doesn't have an expiration date on it. Zenni and Coastal don't care if I order new glasses using my old prescription. I haven't tried with contacts... I think my last prescription had an expiration date.

Note on contacts: because you're physically inserting a medical device into your eye, part of your annual exam is making sure that you are not causing any (potentially permanent) damage do your eye. While hopefully you are not abusing your contacts, even in normal use, sometimes the eyes can be harmed, which can cause major problems down the road for you. In my opinion, the expiration is probably a good thing if you'…

Yeah, I'm fine with it for contacts. It's just protectionism on glasses unless the prescribee has some degenerative condition.

Re: Why are glasses so expensive? The eyewear industry prefers to keep that blurry

#584

You want to know what's outrageously expensive, yet equally important for basic ability to function in the workplace and other situations? Hearing aids. Hearing aids are glasses for your ears. But compared to them, glasses are unbelievably dirt cheap, and basically fully covered by a lot of decent company insurance plans. Hearing aids? Not the case. Imagine if glasses cost $2-3000 per lens. PER LENS. And your company…

Yes, this is true. I'm actually fortunate in that I'm completely deaf in one ear and "only" profoundly deaf in the other. That means I only have to spend $3000 instead of 2x that. It's ridiculous. My hearing aid is 6 years old and I'm sure it's about to fail, but I can't afford a new one right now. It's absolute insanity.

I'd encourage HNers to try self-programming.

I have Phonak HAs so I can buy the programmer (iCube) and software (Target) off ebay for $450 and a pair of hearing aids two generations old for $500-$1000. And if they break or I lose them, buy a replacement and the total is still less than buying from an audiologist.

It's also more flexible. Hearing feedback? Run the feedback test/modeling program. Can swap hearing aids between ears. Friend lose a hearing aid? Let them borrow yours (suitably programmed) and use foam inserts for earmolds (can buy or take a soldering iron to foam earplugs).

Re: Why are glasses so expensive? The eyewear industry prefers to keep that blurry

#585
post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not, it's a nationwide thing enforced by the FTC. WA and some other states have stricter laws which include pupillary distance. https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/com...

Good to know. But judging by the current messaging on the site that where you're supposed to send those complaints for that... I don't think there's much enforcement going on right now. https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

Considering the US govt has been partially closed for over a month now, it's probably a fair statement that NO enforcement of this is going on right now. :P

Re: Why are glasses so expensive? The eyewear industry prefers to keep that blurry

#586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, some of the newer (and likely more expensive) hearing aids support bluetooth, and you can change the levels and tuning from your phone. That would give you the best of both worlds, since you could give yourself good hearing for very important things (meetings, etc) or enjoyable things things that benefit from good hearing (some movies, listening to music, etc).

I've only tried one model, but I was disappointed in the sound quality for music. Hearing aid speakers apparently aren't intended to reproduce the full range of frequencies like headphones. It's probably convenient for voice calls, though.

I think there are likely some that are okay, given my limited knowledge of the subject, which is really just from hearing Adam Savage talk on the Still Untitled podcast about the new ones he got, how his hearing loss it at a different frequency than most people, and how it used to be a big ordeal to get them tuned for specific frequencies (you had to schedule an appointment). His new ones allowed him to re-tune for different types of listening through his phone.

Even if that capability doesn't specifically address the range frequency required for music listening adequately, I imagine there are specialty hearing aids (likely at a hefty price increase) that do, catering to musicians that suffer hearing loss.

Re: Why are glasses so expensive? The eyewear industry prefers to keep that blurry

#587
Last year, I went to a JINS store in Tokyo Japan.

They gave me an eye exam and, in less than an hour, had made my prescription reading glasses (with AR coating). Total cost was less than $90 USD.

And I don't speak Japanese - I know less than a dozen words.

JINS has stores in California.

Re: Why are glasses so expensive? The eyewear industry prefers to keep that blurry

#588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've only tried one model, but I was disappointed in the sound quality for music. Hearing aid speakers apparently aren't intended to reproduce the full range of frequencies like headphones. It's probably convenient for voice calls, though.

I think there are likely some that are okay, given my limited knowledge of the subject, which is really just from hearing Adam Savage talk on the Still Untitled podcast about the new ones he got, how his hearing loss it at a different frequency than most people, and how it used to be a big ordeal to get them tuned for specific frequencies (you had to schedule an appointment). His new ones allowed him to re-tune for d…

For live sound and for people who don't have too much hearing loss, the hearing aid doesn't have to reproduce all the sound. Instead it supplements what's already there. Some of the sound goes through a vent directly to your ear. A hearing aid doesn't have to reproduce deep bass notes, for example.

And for a lot of live music, it's plenty loud enough and protection from (further) hearing loss would be more of an issue.

The main issue I have with my hearing aid when playing music is that the feedback cancelation isn't as good as I'd like for pure, higher pitched notes. (Feedback protection is needed because sound goes out the vent as well as in and that reaches the microphone.)

Re: Why are glasses so expensive? The eyewear industry prefers to keep that blurry

#590

One word: protectionism. Nothing else can explain it. The U.S. healthcare system is rife with protectionism, and it's disgusting. From how hard it is to become a doctor, to how hard it is to build a new hospital (you need a "certificate of need" in just about all States to build one), to FDA regulations on drug manufacturing being extremely expensive, to too many drugs not being over the counter (thus requiring a tri…

I think what you're describing is bureaucracy, red tape, over-regulation and crony capitalism. Protectionism as I understand it would be measures taken to reduce competition from outside the country, not within it

Aka regulatory capture. You are both correct.
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