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The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

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Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to hate it, but have now performed enough interviews of supposedly senior devs with decades of experience. I've literally seen someone who did firmware for the space shuttle grind for 45 minutes on fizz buzz without making progress. Like, I'd they struggle for ten minutes or so, I take a step back and say "Ok, screw syntax, let's just vaguely talk about what needs to happen and mock up some pseudo code.". Even…

I’m going to show some vulnerability… this happened to me this week. I’m probably like a lot of you here: professional software developer for 20 years, have shipped countless products in multiple languages / technologies. Work has appeared on tv and print media multiple times. Have generated millions and millions in cost savings and revenue for employers and clients. But I totally failed a technical screen. It’s been…

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Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#582
post #575
post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever had to do homework as part of a job application? I ask because in my experience, the companies asking for these tend to be a bit shady. For instance, one company asked me to do this extract/load to Spark and analyze data thing. I did it because their e-mail said that they would reply to each individual with feedback. Guess what? 3 weeks later I get a canned response! Another job assignment took me 4 day…

Yes, for example, I spent two days implementing a typeahead search results system for Etsy, including writing my own ingestion pipeline, map-reduce framework, index builder, and request processor. Of course Etsy already had their own stuff, this was just a toy done in Java. It was fun. Got offered the job but didn't take it for personal reasons that cropped up concurrent w/ the interview process.

Alright it sounds like you're applying for higher caliber workplaces, whereas I'm operating somewhere around the junior/mid-level. My feeling is that the article rings more true the lower you are in the foodchain.

I'm guessing Etsy didn't offer you $15/hour, right? :)

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#583
post #172

I'll take a 3-day take-home project over a whiteboard interview or live coding session any day. Working at my pace with my tools in my space? Yes please. The article makes two good points re: bias and lack of research. To the first I think it's up to us as interviewees to mention this in all of our calls. "Do you have a non-take-home option? For some groups this could be an exceptional burden." To the second there's…

Agree. I'm going to spend days of unpaid time 'cramming' for whatever random whiteboard questions I think they might ask me anyway. I'd rather put the time into showing how the work I actually do might be useful to their team. Makes a lot more sense from both sides IMO.

This is a job interview, not a college exam; if you have to "cram", you're doing it wrong. (If they are interviewing you in such a way that "cramming" would make a difference, they're doing it wrong, and why would you want to work there?)

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#584

I don't want to name names but one YC company I interviewed at left me with the distinct impression that they talked a big game, just to get me to work on one of their (apparently) "strictly-hiring-related toy projects" as homework. Homework, "sure", except it: 1) integrated with a real system, 2) mirrored something they actually did, and 3) they would only agree to proceed if I signed an IP/work contract and accepte…

I think they did you a favor because if that's how they treat a candidate you don't want to know how they treat employees.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If a 10 hour project-specific coding task reduces mis-hires by 50%+, isn't it better for both parties? Does this fully replace the onsite? If I'm fully employed, interviewing with three or four places, and expected to take a day off and visit each of them, adding another full day of work on top of each is a big hurdle. To keep going with the devil's advocate: If one of your competitors says "ok based on your initia…

I cannot agree enough. I'm okay with most of the interviewing practices out there, but there has to be some kind of balance between the company's needs and mine. One of the most mind-boggling interviewing processes I've been through went like this: 1. Write a program that satisfies the given requirements. Be sure to use the specified design pattern they explicitly requested. Include a suite of unit tests and instruct…

"anyone can nominate anyone else to be fired because "they don't belong there""

Wow. Reality show style office management, anyone?

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#586
post #352
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

licensing might not be a bad route, similar to a carpenter's license or a bar exam

Licensing probably could work in this industry but it would be a tough nut to implement. For starters, as others have mentioned, with so much change happening, re-licensing would probably be needed, and of course that's a huge cost, a pain, and overhead as well. But then again, as I think about potential solutions, I am kind of coming up dry. Really need to mull on this some more.

For all the change that happens, though, the fundamentals are still the same.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#587
post #518
post #301

It's unreal that will people will bitch and moan about having to invest a couple days, maybe even a whole week in cramming/prepping/interviewing, to perform on-demand, one time, for a job that realistically will earn them $100k, $200k, $300k, $400k+ a year. Meanwhile people that work harder than us 5 days a week for the entire duration of their career will make 1/2, 1/4, 1/6th, or less of income, with none of the per…

Have you ever had to do homework as part of a job application? I ask because in my experience, the companies asking for these tend to be a bit shady. For instance, one company asked me to do this extract/load to Spark and analyze data thing. I did it because their e-mail said that they would reply to each individual with feedback. Guess what? 3 weeks later I get a canned response! Another job assignment took me 4 day…

If you are getting paid $15/hr to code in new york, you are getting massively, massively, massively underpaid.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#588
post #536
post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah we try to have a limit of 4 hours for this kinda thing. We understand that it is the interviewee's free time but when you need to screen 12 people for a job it is not worth a Senior Engineers time for a small startup.

WHAT?!? Getting the right team is one of, if not THE key to startup success. Yet you consider it not worth a senior engineer's time to evaluate the candidates for the next hire, and the presumably with whom they will need to work - productively? Check your org's runway and be sure to have your resume ready when it gets close to the end. I wouldn't expect take-off.

Sorry I assumed that the word 'screen' was universal. This is the first step, it is a waste of a senior engineers time with a candidate that is not even close to ready for the job.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#589
It really seems like the best way to avoid the need for interview coding is to have a professional license for software engineers. Prove to a licensing board that you are competent in your desired specialties.

I don't ever hear of structural engineers or medical doctors having to solve puzzle to get past their interview.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always end up linking this piece in response to people like you, and here I am again. These folks have real data on lots of interviews, and have done some analysis on them: http://blog.interviewing.io/you-cant-fix-diversity-in-tech-w... The takeaway that's relevant to you is the section titled "Interview outcomes are kind of arbitrary". Specifically, things like: As you can see, roughly 25% of interviewees are cons…

I'm amused at the idea that because I pass on senior devs who literally can't do FizzBuzz, that I must have a terrible interview process.

Sure. But, of course there is a difference between having a conversation about the overall trends of a practice versus a small subset of personal experiences. It's also important to define what you mean by "can't do FizzBuzz". Like they can't even do a basic loop or they don't get it perfect, in the exact way you think it should be? Because those are very different as well. I think it's fair to say that if you get a senior Dev in that can't even write out an if-else statement checking for 3 and 5 you have a problem.
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