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They Used To Last 50 Years

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Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#581

Post by 6DM »

icantdrive55 wrote: post #442
ptaipale wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is partially true, of course. Energy saving makes devices more complex, thus they have more things that can be broken. However, it is also clear that e.g. control electronics is simply not made to last. E.g. they use the cheapest of electrolytic capacitors, which will leak and break in 5-10 years. Using proper ones might cost 1-2 cents more per device. This also means that old dead TVs and stuff may often be rep…

"That is partially true, of course. Energy saving makes devices more complex, thus they have more things that can be broken. However, it is also clear that e.g. control electronics is simply not made to last. E.g. they use the cheapest of electrolytic capacitors, which will leak and break in 5-10 years. Using proper ones might cost 1-2 cents more per device. This also means that old dead TVs and stuff may often be re…

In my experience, if you prefer to stay with cars that are very low maintenance, 120-130k miles is a really good time to sell. The mileage is just low enough that the car will still have enough value to make it worth selling on your own. By 150k you'll be making minor repairs frequently, by 180k it get's expensive and becomes a question of how committed you are to keeping the car.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#583

Post by lr4444lr »

nsxwolf wrote: post #243
NDizzle wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not better in every way. Mildew. Having to leave it open so that the seals air out. Gravity - undefeated champion. Replacement parts and repairs. Get ready to open up your wallet. Good luck working on anything yourself.

I hate our front loader. All our towels are moldy. I can never get the smell out. The machine emits a vile rotten egg smell during the spin cycle. I hate all our appliances. Every last one of them. From the microwave that lasted a year to the freezer that leaks water and ruined my hardwood floors. They're all garbage. Horrible, horrible expensive garbage.

Check your manual. There's usually information about running a hot cycle with bleach for maintenance.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#584

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

PietdeVries wrote: post #381
foobarian wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem with the current market is that it's next to impossible to determine the quality of a machine. I would gladly pay $3000 for a washer if I could somehow tell that it will be better built, with higher quality metals, inner parts, and overall longer lasting. But it seems that the extra money these days just buys more flashy bells and whistles that just increase the chance of failure. Sadly my strategy has bee…

Could it be that the lifespan of a appliance is shortened because it his to be more energy-efficient? The old fridges (and car-engines, or antything) were not very economic. A few decades ago getting 10 km per liter of petrol was more or less standard. Now the engine with the same cilinders (1.6 liter for instance) easily get as much as 20 km for the same liter of petrol. The engine is highly optimized by cutting awa…

I have to disagree with this premise as it pertains to automobile engines. Automobile engines have improved tremendously in "lifespan" or Time Before OverHaul. In the '70's and '80's it was a challenge to get an engine to last 100,000 miles. They needed frequent oil changes, spark plugs replaced, had other short-life wearable parts (ignition parts), water pumps to replace, fuel pumps to replace, alternators went bad, oil leaks (rope seal packing), etc. In the early '90's some real improvements began to become apparent. Now cars routinely make it past 100,000 mi without replacing any of that stuff, and while producing more power per unit of displacement.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#585

Post by ben_pr »

wslh wrote: post #569
threepipeproblm wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, no one would ever make products intentionally worse as part of creeping modernism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel No one would ever, for economic reasons, plan (or just allow) for the lifespan of their products to decrease. http://resource.co/article/lifetimes-household-appliances-be... Technology is always getting better! The old timers who almost universally report this phenomenon just don't kn…

My experience, which is not anecdotical and is shared with friends, say the same. I just change a refrigerator bought less than 12 years ago and I am changing a washing machine with the same age. My family is using the same refrigerator for more than 30 years.

I just changed a refrigerator, stove is basically dead, both 8 years old, Whirlpool brand. My Mom is still using the same appliances from when I was a kid. Nearly every family member I have says the same thing, new stuff lasts about 8 - 10 years and why can't we just get one like Mom's that will last 35+ years. My bosh dishwasher runs like new and is 8 years old.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#586

Post by lojack »

Your evidence is still an anecdote, it just involves a couple more people. Still potentially involves some amount of confirmation bias.

It stops being anecdotal when it moves away from your personal experience (including the anecdotal experience of your friends) and moves towards an actual scientific study.

For Reference:

> Anecdotal evidence is evidence from anecdotes, i.e., evidence collected in a casual or informal manner and relying heavily or entirely on personal testimony.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#587

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

donkeyd wrote: post #546
foobarian wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem with the current market is that it's next to impossible to determine the quality of a machine. I would gladly pay $3000 for a washer if I could somehow tell that it will be better built, with higher quality metals, inner parts, and overall longer lasting. But it seems that the extra money these days just buys more flashy bells and whistles that just increase the chance of failure. Sadly my strategy has bee…

On a Dutch TV show they calculated that it's better to buy a cheaper washer that breaks down sooner. After it breaks you will buy a new one, which is often more efficient, saving you more money. Also, the quelity in washing results is often negligible.

That's easy to see if you're replacing an older model with a HE unit. The case is not so obvious when replacing a recent model HE unit with a newer HE one.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#588

Post by valarauca1 »

threepipeproblm wrote: post #564
skywhopper wrote: post #529

I seriously doubt a real study of appliance reliability over the past 70 years would show that the stuff sold in the 50s is actually more reliable or longer-lasting than the stuff sold today. Sure, you can find appliances that old that still work fine, but you don't see the ones that broke down after a year or two--they were junked decades ago and forgotten about. Since you can't grow the supply of working 50-year-ol…

Right, no one would ever make products intentionally worse as part of creeping modernism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel No one would ever, for economic reasons, plan (or just allow) for the lifespan of their products to decrease. http://resource.co/article/lifetimes-household-appliances-be... Technology is always getting better! The old timers who almost universally report this phenomenon just don't kn…

Or in 2002 when DRAM manufactures did the same thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAM_price_fixing

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#589

Post by the-dude »

nsxwolf wrote: post #243
NDizzle wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not better in every way. Mildew. Having to leave it open so that the seals air out. Gravity - undefeated champion. Replacement parts and repairs. Get ready to open up your wallet. Good luck working on anything yourself.

I hate our front loader. All our towels are moldy. I can never get the smell out. The machine emits a vile rotten egg smell during the spin cycle. I hate all our appliances. Every last one of them. From the microwave that lasted a year to the freezer that leaks water and ruined my hardwood floors. They're all garbage. Horrible, horrible expensive garbage.

Run the hottest program once in a while ( 90 Celsius )

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#590

Post by rbcgerard »

modeopfer wrote: post #553
expnsv_hdphns wrote: post #512

When I went to the first semester of engineering school at the University of Wisconsin - Madison, there was a class called Engineering Professional Development 160: Introduction to Engineering. One of the early class sessions was a lecture from a guy at a power tool company, making some kind of jigsaw or handheld cutting tool. He explicitly told us, paraphrasing, "You don't want to make your product too reliable, bec…

I also studied engineering and I think your professor missed the point. You don't overengineer stuff anymore nowadays, not because you want to scam your consumer out of money (aka planned obsolence) but because the design tools got better and every gram of metal or plastic and every screw and every operation like welding, glueing and so on costs money. Nowadays simulation tools, new manufacturing processes and experi…

To your point, I saw or heard an interview with a Ford engineer a while back where he basically said look we know how to make parts that last forever, but they are heavy and expensive. He went on to say people want more affordable cars (cheaper parts) and we need to make cars lighter for fuel efficiency standards (lighter parts), so they set an internal goal of 10 years of longevity for a part, and then try and make the cheapest/lightest part that meets that goal.
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