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What I Heard from Trump Supporters

blog.samaltman.com

581–590 of 906 posts

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#581
post #13

"He's not politically correct." I think this is important. Among the many problems with PC is this: When you exclude an idea from discussion, you don't eliminate that idea. You drive it underground into an echo chamber where it gathers strength and resurfaces later. Censorship -- even of a soft de-facto variety -- creates the impression that your position is weak. The censored idea starts to develop the mystique of a…

"He's not politically correct." It's as if people who rage against political correctness don't understand what it means. It means showing respect and being polite and not using pejoratives. That's all.

That's a gross simplification. It is used to shutdown opposing viewpoints, particularly on college campuses.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/09/what-it...

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#582
post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

What if the liberals are right? It was proposed to me a couple of weeks ago (by a French guy who had spent a few years stateside) that there was a more simple reason for Trumps success. To him a racist, bigoted, misogynist, misanthrope, with a complete lack of taste, wild delusions about his place in the world, a gaudy tower with his name on it, and the idea that (despite his wife being foreign) that immigrants are n…

Have you even read the article you're commenting under?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#583
post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great that those prominent figures are discussing difficult questions openly. That can only result in good things for our society. However, not all of us have such luxury. For most of us, merely asking the initial questions to start a difficult/challenging conversation can have very bad consequences in the current climate. If you've got a job as a coder at a SV company, you'd better be extremely careful about st…

Do you know a single person --regardless of religion-- who supports honor killing? Of course not. This is just an excuse to engage in fear mongering about Islam, and no good will come of that. Essentially the issue here is that some people want to say racist or bigoted things without being ostracized for it. Like you could in the good old days, when everybody was racist. So now there is this big backlash, but it won'…

> Do you know a single person --regardless of religion-- who supports honor killing?

Presumably at the very least the people who are doing the honor killings support honor killings.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#584
post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great that those prominent figures are discussing difficult questions openly. That can only result in good things for our society. However, not all of us have such luxury. For most of us, merely asking the initial questions to start a difficult/challenging conversation can have very bad consequences in the current climate. If you've got a job as a coder at a SV company, you'd better be extremely careful about st…

Do you know a single person --regardless of religion-- who supports honor killing? Of course not. This is just an excuse to engage in fear mongering about Islam, and no good will come of that. Essentially the issue here is that some people want to say racist or bigoted things without being ostracized for it. Like you could in the good old days, when everybody was racist. So now there is this big backlash, but it won'…

> Do you know a single person --regardless of religion-- who supports honor killing? Of course not. This is just an excuse to engage in fear mongering about Islam, and no good will come of that.

Bad logic, I don't know a single person who supports White Nationalism but that doesn't mean they are not there.

Also most honor killing isn't really a calm and rational following of a religious edict like "Today is Sabbath so I should go to Mosque" or "My daughter slept with a married man, looks like to keep my family's honor I need to kill her', rather it comes out as the same rage as when husbands who catch their wives cheating get when they kill them.

Also there is wide statistical proofs of support for Honor killings among Muslims, if I were you I wouldn't claim that there are literally no Muslims who support this.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't say Merry Christmas. Specifically in schools, this is problematic because it makes children who do not celebrate christmas feel left out. Adults should be able to handle it, children not so much. > You can't say you understand homosexuality to be a disorder. This is not an opinion related to your job, so you should definitely keep it to yourself while on the job. While some people will definitely throw a…

Regardless of whether any of these are considered "rude" or "disrespectful" (which btw is an opinion that many Trump supporters openly disagree with), it's a very real form of censorship to mandate that people aren't allowed to say these things. And that's dangerous.

> mandate that people aren't allowed to say these things

If you are rude or disrespectful to people at your job then you are negatively effecting your job performance and you will be fired due to that. This is anywhere. I haven't heard anyone (though there is probably someone out there, there always is) recommend jailing or otherwise punishing anyone beyond losing their job.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of the "CO2->Global Warming->Catastrophe" thing is it that you don't buy? What is "false consensus"? Are you in a position to judge the conclusions supported by a vast majority (that's only my perception, but how likely is it to be completely mistaken?) of experts? What brings you to the conclusion that global warming could be a hoax? Do you have a reason for not trusting the experts? Who could be intereste…

OK, I'll bite: >> What part of the "CO2->Global Warming->Catastrophe" thing is it that you don't buy? I don't buy that CO2 emissions are going to be a problem. I don't buy that the observed changes in climate are due to CO2. >> What is "false consensus"? Are you in a position to judge the conclusions supported by a vast majority (that's only my perception, but how likely is it to be completely mistaken?) of experts?…

You might have seen this but I put it out for other people to see it. Recently It came out that climate scientistic have been manipulating weather data. Essay from the whistleblower:

Climate scientists versus climate data https://judithcurry.com/2017/02/04/climate-scientists-versus...

I posted it to HN as well but it never got any traction. Great read nevertheless.

Anyone who has lived for a while has seen multiple climate doomsday predictions that didn't pan out. The end prophecy reminds of a religious sect.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to San Francisco from a rural town, and I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town than I would insinuating something anything less than 100% left-leaning at work here. People disagree in small town Utah, and it would be uncomfortable. In San Francisco you're ostracized. It even makes me nervous to leave my name attached to a comment like this, knowing that my…

> I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town I'm sure I'd feel comfortable sharing liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town as well, but I'm also a straight white male. You're worry about being ostracized. People in Kansas have to worry that radical christian terrorists are going to murder them [1]. [1]: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/kansas-crusaders-arrest…

Having lived for >2 years in 6 different US states (NY, CA, TX, MA, NV, MT) and cities with populations ranging from 2,000 to 20,000,000, I can absolutely guarantee you that rural white areas have the least internalized racism of anywhere in the US. The communities are small enough that racial classification isn't actually a useful heuristic, so people just use social connections and character instead. Second to that are places where what people in CA and NY often call "casual racism" (I.e. Humor based on racial/ethnic stereotypes) is acceptable; it allows people to recognize and accept cultural differences (that might otherwise cause conflict) in a friendly way. Texas is a great example of this; San Antonio is majority Mexican background, with a huge Muslim population as well. People across ethno-cultural lines bond over good-spirited racial jokes about super tacos, Los Espurs, canned queso, and the Israeli-palestinian conflict.

By far the most internally racist populations I've ever lived in were those where any recognition of ethno-cultural differences was explicitly verboten. If you make a joke about Mexican culture in SF (even if you're Mexican), there's a good chance you're getting fired, so internal thoughts about ethnic differences are suppressed and allowed to fester, and then people cover it up psychologically with a huge dose of self-loathing and, externally, doing the exact opposite of whatever is thought to be racist. The result is a modern version of "white man's burden"; a lot of the people in SF are absolutely convinced that without their help the poor, trod-upon people of color (replacement for "minorities" after that phrase starter to apply to white people in many US regions) would surely starve.

The point being, being a straight white male has nothing to do with it. For the record, I'm neither straight nor white, and I agree with the GP that I felt safer expressing disagreement in conservative environments than I do in very liberal cities like SF and NY.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#588
post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That used to be my main beef with Milo. Now that he's come out as effectively pro-NAMBLA, I'm seriously wondering how tasteless he's going to get before we stop giving him the attention he craves. (And, yes, I realize that his stance regarding pedophilia is most likely a consequence of his own childhood sexual abuse, but even that still doesn't excuse the shitty things he's advocating, or saying about specific people…

>is necessarily an act of violence No, it's not. Please stop with the weasel-worded equivalencies. I agree that Milo's tirade about the student was ill-advised, but it is not violence. Also, I find it side-splittingly hilarious how people are going after his Rogan interview comments (calling him pro-NAMBLA is top-notch clickbait, where were you Monday morning when all these stories were going out?!), yet the same peo…

> Please stop with the weasel-worded equivalencies.

If you engage in a course of action with an intent to harm another in any way, or behave in a manner likely to result in harm to another, you have committed violence, whatever form that action takes — words, bullets, or anything else.

If you can't accept that basic definition, "then you're already beyond help."

(See how easy it is to poison a discussion with accusations and snide remarks?)

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#589
post #4

Thanks, Sam, for doing this. I also recommend reading Trump's book [0] to understand his appeal. It's more coherent and nuanced than his speeches and tweets. Some of the logic is fallacious, of course, but in subtle ways that I think are worth understanding. For example, the idea of "have some other country pay for X" comes up in multiple contexts (not just the border wall). It sounds great if you don't really unders…

Considering Trump didn’t write any of his own books, and hasn’t read a whole book in decades (including the ones he puts his name on), why would reading “his” book give an accurate impression of his ideas, vs. just listening directly to the source (his tweets and campaign rallies)? Anything “coherent”/“nuanced”/“subtle” is the invention of the ghostwriter, a kind of best-guess translation from word salad to something…

> and hasn’t read a whole book in decades

source please.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#590
post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Your "belief" is not based on evidence. Mine is actually, it's people like you that are infuriating.

Perhaps let's take a different tack. What year were you born in? If it was before 1985, I have a bet for you. If the global surface temperature for every month in 2017 is less than the temperature the year you were born, I will give you $2k. If the global surface temperature is greater in 2017, you owe me $1k. Wanna take that bet?

For example, let's say you were born in 1980. If the global surface temperature average, according to NOAA, was greater in march of 1980 than it is in march of 2017, I will pay you $2k. If, on the other hand, march of 1980 was colder than march of 2017, you pay me $1k.

Happy to put $24k into the reputable escrow service of your choice and wholly pay for the escrow fees myself, if you'll do the same with $12k, ensuring that the bet can last a whole year. I'm also happy to scale down, if that's too rich for your blood. It must be for the full 12 months, as I have found the educational value of this bet increases substantially if it lasts for more than a few months.

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