Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

visa.lafrenchtech.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

581–590 of 751 posts

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#581

Post by user5994461 »

geodel wrote: post #569
user5994461 wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The French engineering talent is top notch... but you'll never see it. Go to a graduation ceremony at a top school (note: it's delayed 1-2 years after graduation) and you'll learn that the top 10% have ALL left the country, no exception. (I'm talking about the top in terms of technical abilities, entrepreneurship and/or skills that are valuable to execute , not necessarily school grades).

I find it believable and surprising at the same time. Believable because despite what everyone claim, lot of people put money on top of everything else and they will head to where they are welcome to make more money. Surprising because if a first world nation with high quality life in so many ways faces this problem what about the rest of the world.

It's not about money. There are no jobs in the tech industry in France.

Moved for the job. Stayed abroad for the job and the money.

Then whenever you look at what the country has to offer if you ever go back, you're like: "Fuckkkkkkkk" (yeah, it's that much of a disaster).

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#582

Post by glandium »

user5994461 wrote: post #577
glandium wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then with CDIs making it almost impossible to fire anyone This myth has to stop. It's almost impossible to fire anyone on the spot . You can't tell them "go home, and I don't want to hear from you again". You have to give them up to 3 months notice (depending on the contract, for engineers, it's going to be 3 months). But you can still have them go home and never come back, as long as those 3 months are paid. Edit:…

For a UK contract (and probably USA), there is a clause that says 'if any party decides to end the contract, so be it, and there will be X weeks/months of notice". For a French contract (CDI = permanent), it's not possible to terminate the employee unilaterally.

> For a French contract (CDI = permanent), it's not possible to terminate the employee unilaterally.

It is possible. It just doesn't happen on a day for the next.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#583

Post by user5994461 »

erowtom wrote: post #578
user5994461 wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30k salary = 17XX € per month. Let's say a flat is 500k. I hate to disappoint you but you'll never afford to buy a flat.

You've misunderstood. I get 26570 euros at the end of the year, after paying taxes, food, electricity, flat, insurances, common life stuff. This is the "bonus". I also moved to another company and greatly increased my revenue :).

Correction: You live with your girlfriend and you managed to save that after you shared all your expenses TOGETHER, especially dividing your rent by 2.

I can live in London, ALONE, and still get more savings than that at the end of the year, just sayin'.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#584

Post by guitarbill »

crucialfelix wrote: post #315
tom_mellior wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I thought the AZERTY and QWERTY layouts were about the same if you touchtype. ... and never need a comma, or numbers.

or never need to program: ( ) { } [ ] ; @ I have a German kezboard (sic) but I run it in US mode. I have no idea how any programmer can use the standard German layout (and many I know use US keyboards).

This. All good manufacturers (Apple, Dell, Lenovo) allow you to spec US keyboards when you order.

macOS is good because of it's composing. You can compose umlauts by pressing option+u and then the "base" vowel, sz/ß is option+s. Same with accents, that's option+e/option+i and more. The Spanish ñ one is option+n, n.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#585

Post by hocuspocus »

user5994461 wrote: post #537
hocuspocus wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. France isn't an exception in Europe regarding high taxes and social contributions (even though the distribution employee/employer is making the salaries look a bit low compared to say, Germany). And I'm sure some companies can drive salaries up, they just don't need to. Software engineering is looked down upon, most new grads want to become project manager, somehow working at a big bank / big consulting firm…

The big London banks may pay double or triple compared to Paris. It's just stupid to stay in Paris if you're good and you want to work in banking/finance. London has the top investment banks, the top edge funds, the top HFT firms, the top whatever finance thing there is in the world. There's nothing of that in Paris. The average British bank data science is powered by ENS & ENSIMAG & co (among other top worldwide sch…

I don't know finance much but I've heard the same about NYC indeed. People telling me half the quants at their previous jobs were French :)

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#586

Post by user5994461 »

glandium wrote: post #582
user5994461 wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a UK contract (and probably USA), there is a clause that says 'if any party decides to end the contract, so be it, and there will be X weeks/months of notice". For a French contract (CDI = permanent), it's not possible to terminate the employee unilaterally.

> For a French contract (CDI = permanent), it's not possible to terminate the employee unilaterally. It is possible. It just doesn't happen on a day for the next.

I'm willing to agree if you word it as "It is not strictly impossible".

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#587

Post by tornadoboy55 »

xenadu02 wrote: post #501
tornadoboy55 wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.. which is usually capped. So you are covered for minor incidents, but anything above 200k (or whatever the cap is) will completely fuck you up. Because anything that will have that much cost will also be something serious enough to incapacitate you for a long time and leave you without income. EU healthcare usually doesn't have cap, nor a deductible of thousands of dollars.

That's not true. Obamacare eliminated lifetime caps. Small and medium size companies often had $1 million lifetime caps but large companies have negotiating power and typically had no pre-existing condition exclusion periods and no lifetime caps (or something insane like $10 million). Under Obamacare all US health insurance plans have no lifetime caps and no pre-existing condition exclusions.

Obamacare is going to get completely eviscerated by the combination of a Republican President and a Republican Senate..

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#588

Post by morgante »

renaudg wrote: post #425

Regarding French salaries again : yes they are lower than elsewhere but with some exceptions, French employers are not the problem : they do pay the same price for you as in other European countries, more or less ! The difference is that your average engineer in France costs them around 1.5-2.5 times the total take home pay, because of high, compulsory labor taxes. In exchange, employees get as standard : * a top not…

I love how people trot out universal healthcare or pensions as a reason to ignore that European salaries are so much lower.

With an American tech salary of $200k/yr, I can pay for all of that (health insurance, student loans, etc.) and still sock away $100k/yr in savings. That $100k is more than enough to build up a massive nest egg which will provide for me better than any pension or unemployment insurance would.

If you play your cards right, you can be financially independent after about a decade of working in the US tech industry. Your entire working career could be only 10 years. That would be insane to imagine in Europe, yet you think France has better quality of live?

You mention having more vacation. I know plenty of people who switched to contracting in the US so they could have more time to focus on startups and hobbies. They only work maybe half the year, yet still make more than developers do in Europe.

European developers are underpaid. Full stop. You could dramatically improve your financial circumstances by getting a job at a US tech company (though the visa situation makes that challenging).

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#589

Post by _r2gl »

erowtom wrote: post #578
user5994461 wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30k salary = 17XX € per month. Let's say a flat is 500k. I hate to disappoint you but you'll never afford to buy a flat.

You've misunderstood. I get 26570 euros at the end of the year, after paying taxes, food, electricity, flat, insurances, common life stuff. This is the "bonus". I also moved to another company and greatly increased my revenue :).

I don't know man, I'm with user5994461, after all my bills monthly ($2,000 monthly rent, $350 new car, $200 insurance, $30 phone, $200~ utilities, ~$500 food) I have +/- $60,000 USD at the end of the year after taxes in surplus with only one year of experience and no diploma..

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#590

Post by user5994461 »

hocuspocus wrote: post #585
user5994461 wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big London banks may pay double or triple compared to Paris. It's just stupid to stay in Paris if you're good and you want to work in banking/finance. London has the top investment banks, the top edge funds, the top HFT firms, the top whatever finance thing there is in the world. There's nothing of that in Paris. The average British bank data science is powered by ENS & ENSIMAG & co (among other top worldwide sch…

I don't know finance much but I've heard the same about NYC indeed. People telling me half the quants at their previous jobs were French :)

That'd make a lot of sense. French are very strong at maths.

Basically, the "ivy league" French curriculum is: The first 2 years of college ain't college. It's an intensive non stop maths training program, at the end of which there is a national test (incredibly selective on maths). The students get to choose what college they go to, in order of ranking, highest score served first. Then they'll do some more maths in college, because, well, that's the only thing they can do xD

Post reply on HN