Earlier quoted context omitted.
That cost is the infrastructure cost, amortized over a long time, not counting R&D, maintenance, marketing, ticketing, and various personnel costs, assuming it's near capacity. Translation, it's going to cost more than $20.
Even if it costs $100 for one way, it's still cheaper than plane, and you save an hour on travel time.
Hyperloop
571–580 of 983 posts
Re: Hyperloop
#572Cost is probably off by an order of magnitude, if not more. Why? Unions and other groups. Building anything in this country costs massively more (and takes significantly longer) than one could imagine because of our unions are not business symbiotic. The goal of union leadership is to extract as much as they can out of the businesses they infect, even if this means their demise.
A lot of the unions that would be part of such a project have some of the laziest and most problematic people working for them. If you come from the Silicon Valley tech world my words make no sense to you. In fact, you might think I am nuts. All I have to say is: Do a good size trade show exhibit at a few of the unionized convention centers in the US and then see what you think about US unions. Then repeat that experience at various locations in Europe and Japan and see the difference. I have done just that. US labor unions are destroying our country from the inside out.
How many significant new civil engineering projects in the US can you name over the last, say, fifty years. Right.
Hyperloop cost would be way more than this paper seems to predict.
The political factor is grossly underestimated. Our reality is that we live at a time of political deadlock. Nobody can or wants to make a decision and the decisions we do make tend to be suboptimal, sometimes grotesquely so: example, California high speed rail.
Finally, it addresses the wrong market. I am not sure why people insist on applying trains to transporting people in the US. Sorry to resort to reality folks: If you build it they will NOT come. We do not have that culture and you will not inspire it simply by building trains. You'd have to forcefully push people in that direction through legislation that would make it too expensive to not use rail. In other words you'd have to declare war against other methods of transportation through punitive actions.
The right place for high speed rail in the US is cargo, not passenger rail. If we could evolve our cargo rail systems to move at 300 km/hr rather than 50 the consequences would provide economic benefits and development beyond a century.
The final point is related to politics. We have a decision making system that allows anyone to vote. And, while this is commendable, it does create horrible problems. Imagine allowing a random group of, say, ten people deciding whether or not your child should have surgery. I'd be surprised if anyone thought this to be a good idea. No, most people would rather have a group of experts in the field, more than likely MD's in this case, vote for such a decision. The ridiculous California high speed rail project is a result of hordes of low-information, mathematically challenged, technologically ignorant and financially ignorant voters being led by the nose by unions, media and political forces.
How do you move forward when people like that can vote on these issues and their vote has equal value to that of an expert in the relevant fields: a PhD in Physics, an engineer, a financial expert, etc.
Regrettably this is not a technological problem. It is far more complex than that.
Re: Hyperloop
#573"In the case of the Hyperloop, Musk started focusing on public transportation after he grew disenchanted with the plans for California’s high-speed rail system." And who says that big government stifles entrepreneurial innovation? If ALL Musk does with the Hyperloop announcement is shed more light on the potential debacle that is to be our $70b+ high-speed rail in California, we owe him a debt of gratitude. PS - Dire…
If ALL Musk does with the Hyperloop announcement is shed more light on the potential debacle that is to be our $70b+ high-speed rail in California, we owe him a debt of gratitude. Really? Because it looks like this is an attempt to derail CA HSR using a proposal for an experimental technology that offers a fraction of what CA HSR does, but is potentially faster. CA HSR replaces/upgrades two metropolitan rail systems…
Did Musk say his Hyperloop wouldn't be tied to the grid?
Re: Hyperloop
#574In Brazil the building of a new high speed train between São Paulo and Rio was just delayed for the third for for lack of interested companies to build the system. The estimated cost is at US$ 17B. There are not earthquakes in Brazil and the length should be around 500km. It seems like a better candidate than SF-LA. just saying,
Re: Hyperloop
#575Earlier quoted context omitted.
My bet is that Elon could build the Hyperloop closer to budget than the state of California could build a traditional train. Leadership matters.
It's not clear to me that he is interested in being the one to build it. I think he wants somebody else to.
Re: Hyperloop
#576Re: Hyperloop
#577Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Musk should do what the Germans did with the TR0x series of maglev vehicles Musk has already given more than enough for the world and done more than enough. Somebody should do it, but we should not expect him to do it.
We shouldn't expect him to demonstrate his idea?
Re: Hyperloop
#578Earlier quoted context omitted.
California will get more crowded, but it will continue to be a disaster of urban planning, limiting the utility of HSR. It's mind boggling to me that the California HSR isn't being built from DC to Boston instead.
Uhm, LA alone has more people than DC and Boston combined. Plus another 9 million living in the Bay Area. This is far and away the most obvious candidate for direct HSR in all of North America.
Re: Hyperloop
#579Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bill Gates has more important things to spend his money on than moving rich americans from somewhere in America to somewhere else in America.
I live in los angeles and the proposed price is cheaper than taking a cab from the LAX to my place (4 miles). So no, this is not to help rich americans.
Re: Hyperloop
#580Earlier quoted context omitted.
Jerry Brown's political career is coming to an end, so there are no long term political consequences for him. He's also traditionally been an opponent of government waste. I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that he would choose an unproven but promising technology over our existing useless high speed rail project. The assembly is another matter. If you think hyperloop is interesting, write and call your state…
>He's also traditionally been an opponent of government waste. he is in bed with gov employees unions (the unions are primary driving force behind 200-300K/year gov employees pensions ( http://www.mercurynews.com/salaries/pensions ) with retirement age of 55, CA is something like $200B deep in that hole), and especially with prison guard union - of course huge prison population resulting from "toughness on crime" may…
Of course he's with the government employees unions, he has to live with them every day.