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The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

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Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#571

I simply do not understand the optaphobia of the tech literate. Social media already tracks it's users with or without laws. The general populace simply will not wish to anonymize themselves on the internet. So ID Laws only serves as a benefit by restricting children. Regarding pornography, the demand will always be there. Adding ID tracking will just shift the business model to be more covert, which is also a net be…

Similarly, I do not understand the willful ignorance and bootlicking attitude of those who want to support coercing others into sharing orivate information. The reasons are mentioned every single time these laws are brought up, I can only assume you're willfully ignoring the concerns people have: It's a security black hole, increasing our attack surface astronomically. It causes undue compliance costs for websites to…

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply. Here's what I think:

> Similarly, I do not understand the willful ignorance and bootlicking attitude of those who want to support coercing others into sharing orivate information.

I think by enacting these ID laws, we immediately add a barrier of entry to social media. Social media has been too easy to participate, and many people have let their guards down allowing them to collect our data and sell our attention. Just like how cookie banners annoy users, my hope is that the additional barrier of ID laws will make people think twice before submitting themselves to social media.

> The reasons are mentioned every single time these laws are brought up, I can only assume you're willfully ignoring the concerns people have:

> It's a security black hole, increasing our attack surface astronomically.

Do you mean the possibility of a data leak? Social media is public. When people are broadcasting their location willingly, I don't see how an ID number adds harm.

> It causes undue compliance costs for websites to meet basic security standards.

And they should. Restaurants follow food safety and hygiene regulations. Websites should follow child safety regulations. That is fair.

> It does not reliably prevent the determined teenager from bypassing these restrictions, e.g. with a vpn, but imposes enormous costs on allegedly a nontarget demograpgic (e.g. everyone else). Small benefit with a large cost is a bad policy.

The effect of juvenile subversion, I think, has been overstated. The UK government released a study that [30% of teenagers used VPNs](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/childrens-circumv...). If 70 percent of teenagers are off social media, I think it's a worthwhile endeavour.

> The problem is entirely manufactured by bureaucrats, the public is concerned with gas prices and making ends meet. The parents that are concerned about their child's internet access can and do take the appropriate precautions because child controls already exist.

One can do both. Again, child safety is not an issue of the individual. Peer pressure is a real phenomenon. I wouldn't blame a parent stuck in the ghetto for not being able to give their children better opportunities.

> Whatever justification is given, the end result is mass surveillance, with the expected consequences in reduction of personal and social liberties. This is nothing to scoff at.

I would like to add that it is mass surveillance of public spaces, which is already plenty surveilled. I believe in ID laws for public online activity, not your personal WhatsApp chats. If this sounds like a slippery slope, there are many alternative solutions to be found.

The crux of ID laws for child safety should not be its existence, but its scope. Apply it to social media companies who have shown that they cannot be trusted with the attention of children, nothing more.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning it just for kids requires identification and is strictly worse.

If you want it banned for everyone, ID verification doesn’t even matter since presumably you wouldn’t be on the platform anyway.

ID verification that comes with banning it for children won't be limited to Facebook and other platforms like that.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#573
post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The large majority of the population in Vietnam, in both the North and the South, didn't want a foreign power controlling their country and determining their fate. They wanted to run their own country, and have peace. And yet, the poster you're replying to said no such thing . Not even close. They merely said they wanted help repelling an enemy. You're also using hindsight to frame this conflict, something entirely u…

Have you really backslid from "modern militaries don't rape and pillage" to "modern militaries rape and pillage, but it doesn't count because it's illegal"?

Backslid? What on Earth are you talking about?

If you read carefully, when pulled into deeper nuance, I'm consistently discussing what is legal behaviour for that military. Yes, there is a difference between "that military itself calls that act illegal" and "that military says it's OK to engage in that act". A massive difference.

And at no point did I lump all "modern militaries" together. In fact I specifically talked about democracies vs dictatorships in modern times, too.

So you're confusing "modern militaries rape and pillage" with "militaries' members rarely perform ilegal acts, and rape and pillage".

Or are you trying to claim it's standing, legal, normal operating procedure for the US military to rape? Are you?

Because with the framing you're using, that's what you're apparently trying to build here.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#574

Here's my idea how "safe mode" might be implemented without selfie, passport and without every app or website owner having to spend money on compliance. The mobile and desktop OS should have a checkbox "child mode" in the onboarding stage. Switching device to "child mode" allows only installing white-listed apps from the government list and opening white-listed websites from the government list. Parents may edit the…

I also have a proposal for lawmakers. It's simpler, and it will address the digital parenting problem from the root, and also solve a bunch of other societal problems in the process: use antitrust to force hardware vendors to ship their smartphones without an operating system. End the mobile OS cartel and let there be competition.

This digital parenting problem would have been solved long ago if hardware wasn't locked down to oblivion. Kids nowadays use phones and tablets for the most part, so there should be a bunch of toy forks of Android with child-friendly features builtin as a result of natural demand, and some might not even have a browser or app store. There should also be scam-proof OSes for the elderly. But those don't exist because the mobile operating system duopoly is forcing the entire population to use the same two OSes, stifling software competition that would normally respond to user demand for different feature sets.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we’re talking 80s, a better comparison would be He-Man . The FTC let the free-market run riot with children’s TV. Shows used commercials to push expensive plastic toys. The shows themselves became commercials for their associated product lines. Parents felt unable to resist the social pressure channeled through their children and congress eventually passed an act that let the FCC reign in the FTC’s damage. In the…

Unrelated, but He-Man is the funniest name ever, and I can't wait for the gender roles people to come out with some series called He-Man and She-Woman.

Reminds me of human Pokémon:

  man -> woman -> wowoman
https://www.reddit.com/r/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns/comments/7ztt2...

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#576
It's shocking to me how Americans can easily go for this kind of stuff. A few years ago an otherwise enlightened community leader here in the US told me how he admirer European anti hate speech laws.

It didn't occur to him that such laws could so easily be used to silence him in the near future. I think it's a bit of labor/left wing thinking that "we are so obviously good and smart and right" that any restrictions would only apply to others.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#577
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, that's a reasonable approach. Just to clarify that we're agreeing, the comment I was replying to was strongly defending California and Illinois' laws that require the OS record an age field for the primary user of the device, which while currently self-declared is at least an obvious path for future, more invasive legislation.

The problem with a self declared approach is that puts a signalling mechanism in place. Once in place the laws can easily scope creep year over year to add more information or require putting in ID information or some future nation-wide digital ID and Trump coin digital wallet which could easily be the plan all along. All they need is the API that will interface with websites using some agreed upon standard and then…

Ensure system does not have this information:

    loginctl show-user $USER 2>/dev/null
    userdbctl user $USER --json=pretty 2>/dev/null | grep -i birth
Confirm field is not set

    homectl inspect $USER | grep -i birth
If it is set, unset it

    sudo homectl update $USER --birthday=""
Tell your favorite AI what OS, kernel version (matters if using a locked down kernel) and browser is being used. Ask for a systemd service that uses bubblewrap to prevent access to systemd, set whatever other limits like memory and CPU usage.

If in the future the browser gets passive / aggressive updates if they mimic Microsoft and refuses to run if there is no age set or if they can not call systemd commands or libraries then script a random age or age range on each login so that it is not used for tracking. pseudo super-cookie

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#578
post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> others still need protection at 16 Other still need protection at 30, or in fact in my opinion also a lot of people above 50 (that didn't grow up with the internet around) are not prepared for what is out there. Also there are parents that are "underage". Those are not considered either. I agree it is a very arbitrary limit indeed, but it seems there is no other good proxy so for a lot of people it will be choosing…

It's the same principle as the age of consent. It'll always be arbitrary, but that's still better than not having a limit at all.

I agree that something has to be done about kids on socials. But perhaps we can start with not punishing anyone by default and punishing offenders instead.

I don't see legally why a checkbox "not underage" isn't enough, as long as the rules are actually enforced and the people ticking that box while underage are punished appropriately. Instead of denying access to all unless proven above a certain age.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#579
post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Bitch please I could literally be arrested for what I said, can you claim the same in the US? >chasing an attacker down the street with a cricket bat and beating the shit out of someone. Someone literally got arrested for buying a baseball bat couple days ago... >thats not way to talk about the scottish Somehow they aren't included in the law exclusion or are part of the group doing disproportionate amounts of stabb…

Yes, the same can happen in the US. In general, no country has successfully constructed a magical force field that prevents its police officers from ever arresting people for stupid reasons. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/31/tennessee-ma...

Charges (rightfully) dropped and not prosecuted because of the first amendment, which does not exist in the UK or the EU.

"Hate" Speech laws are a blanked go to jail card. Anything interpreted as "grossly offensive" by anybody will result in arrests AND prosecutions.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#580
post #254

The right people to protect children are those responsible for them - their parents and guardians. If there is a problem with children not being sufficiently protected, that is the level at which to solve it. Give families tools and information to do so.

No ID checks at clubs, bars, or other adults-only venues. No school zone speed limits, or protected crossings on streets near schools. No requirements for railings on public balconies, fencing around public pools, protective covers over drains or other holes in the ground. Parents/guardians can just supervise. Sounds great!

The thing is, if you really care about your kid, that is your assumed threat model anyway. Sure, it's nice that it's somewhat mitigated by these rules, but in reality people don't assume the school zone is safe, they know there's still impaired drivers to account for, etc. Yeah, the railing is there, but you'll tell your kid not to lean on it.
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