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US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

reuters.com

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Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#571

Post by pbhjpbhj »

grafmax wrote: post #424
apatheticonion wrote: post #320

I use DeepSeek every day (via VSCode Insiders and Zed Editor). It's very affordable and, while it's slightly behind Claude (not sure how far behind Fable), it suits my working style well. I'm not using unsupervised multi-agent workflows and don't need a library of skills files - I'm writing most of the code and leaning on AI to help with mundane tasks - like; - generating types for APIs - generating boilerplate based…

IMO US vs Chinese data vacuuming is a false choice. One of the main benefits of these open weights models is that you can get the privacy and cost savings by hosting your own model in cloud infrastructure. Open weights models are only 4.5 months behind closed weight ones. The fact that US considers propping its flagship technology by blacklisting competitors demonstrates how small the US competitive advantage really…

They could just be flagging that they're considering blacklisting as a way to get some more Trump coin sold or other bribes. Or indeed to get further money from USA companies - which way will Trump decide, only the numbers in his family's bank accounts can give us a clue.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#572

Post by throw1234567891 »

inigyou wrote: post #445
lbreakjai wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other option is the one that kills palestinians, and we don't even get free models out of it.

But don't you get it, Ukrainians are worth more than Palestinians because... some reason

Because Israel. Call out the problem by name .

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#573

Post by handle584 »

reverius42 wrote: post #506
skippyboxedhero wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compel? I am confused, all data in China is held in datacentres which the state has full access to, that is the terms of their operation and why some big tech US companies didn't want to operate in China. They don't need to "compel" anyone, the CCP has people at every large company supervising employees, and they already have full access to your data. I am always completely baffled by these comments that not only get…

Isn't this essentially true in the US too though? The feds can show up at your data center with a National Security Letter and demand access at gunpoint. And you have to give it to them, because guns, and you can't ever tell anyone about it because that's what it says in the National Security Letter and also because guns.

Your reply already shows the difference. In US you have the default expectation of privacy, until the feds get their eyes on you. Meanwhile in China the default expectation is no privacy, exactly as OP argued.

This system in action is best demonstrated during the lock-down period of COVID, when any random dude who contracted the virus would immediately have their personal life for the previous week/month published nationwide to the hour, and those who have overlap will immediately get a 14 day lock-down at home.

I have not seen surveillance done with such ease and breath elsewhere. And local PD already have access to such info, and there are scandals where police sell such info for profit.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#574

Post by epolanski »

Bnjoroge wrote: post #566
epolanski wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can second this. Deepseek is great for mundane work day tasks. I use it via claude code, just pointing the api to deepseek. It's also not a clear "Opus 4.8 >> DS 4 Pro", I've done 16 tasks in 4 days across the two, and while Opus was indeed on average better, both models performed well being able to handle most of my workload. In fact DeepSeek was _significantly_ better on 3 task out of 16 and Opus was _significant…

Have you tried glm 5.2? It’s better than ds4pro and very close to opus4.6. Alot more expensive than ds4pro/mimo but significantly chesper than opus 4.6 for 90% of the quality

I haven't yet, no.

I alternate between Opus 4.8 and DS 4. If I remove my Anthropic subscription I will get GLM 5.2 in place of it.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#575

Post by svachalek »

skippyboxedhero wrote: post #270
villish wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both China and the US can compel businesses to hand over data. There is no reason to trust any service that doesn't have strong built in privacy.

Compel? I am confused, all data in China is held in datacentres which the state has full access to, that is the terms of their operation and why some big tech US companies didn't want to operate in China. They don't need to "compel" anyone, the CCP has people at every large company supervising employees, and they already have full access to your data. I am always completely baffled by these comments that not only get…

Is it so different in the US? These are just the surveillance we know about, and they're not openly telling us about these, they're actively fighting public knowledge of such programs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#576

Post by myrmidon »

greenavocado wrote: post #468
eru wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fer... suggests Chad and Somalia and DR Congo are the most vibrant societies by that metric. You might want to compare Singapore with a city like NYC or London, not with a territorial state. It's pretty normal around the world for cities to be replenished mainly by people moving in. (Of course, to be fair you then also need to compare GDP per capita against oth…

I never said a high TFR means a vibrant society. A low TFR is indisputably the slow death of a society.

> A low TFR is indisputably the slow death of a society.

No this is a non-sequitur.

Low fertility only means that the affected society grows smaller. This is only equivalent to "slow death" when it persists for centuries until the society is actually dead.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#577

Post by theanonymousone »

Cakez0r wrote: post #395
hodgehog11 wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of price-to-productivity, nothing will beat DeepSeek right now. For what you have described, all of the existing frontier models will perform well (probably about the same even). If you expanded the list to very hard research tasks, Fable was so far ahead of the others that it doesn't even deserve debate. If you are a researcher doing something involving scientific computation or mathematics that wasn't reje…

Mimo 2.5 pro is the best intelligence / dollar

Yes. Whenever I tried, I found no reason to use DeepSeek v4 Pro versus MiMo v2.5 Pro, price-wise or performance-wise. Benchmarks also confirm this.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#578

Post by mctaylor »

apatheticonion wrote: post #320

I use DeepSeek every day (via VSCode Insiders and Zed Editor). It's very affordable and, while it's slightly behind Claude (not sure how far behind Fable), it suits my working style well. I'm not using unsupervised multi-agent workflows and don't need a library of skills files - I'm writing most of the code and leaning on AI to help with mundane tasks - like; - generating types for APIs - generating boilerplate based…

The fact that America has yet to figure out the importance of soft power (and TRUST in particular) in the AI/information age is mind boggling to me.

The CLOUD act, FISA rulings, the Snowden leaks, and now the aggressive tech oligarch push to weaponize the unholy combination of AI, MAGA, and social media algorithms in an absurd and patently obvious attempt to impose (or maintain?) "world domination" seems likely to cement their downfall.

"Authoritarian" China's low-cost and open source approach looks downright democratic by comparison.

It seems increasingly clear to me that AI is forcing a reckoning in terms of how we interpret authority and control in light of new ways that information is evolving. The old political labels seem grossly insufficient to describe the present reality and the ones whining about "democracy", "freedom", and "liberal values" increasingly sound (and act) like bitter, out of touch old men desperately clinging onto a world that is rapidly outgrowing them.

Last time I checked, the closest approximation of liberal values are "liberty, equality, fraternity". They seem to think that "liberty" should only apply to them, "equality" is a threat to their consolidated power, and "fraternity" is something that should be weaponized to turn communities against one another to distract from the ways the oligarchs have been and continue to abuse and consolidate their power.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#579

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

nonameiguess wrote: post #565
steelframe wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes me wonder what the value of a PhD is.

Depends on the field. There aren't really all that many research tasks that can be completed in a week. One of my favorite stories from the past few decades was the finding of accelerating expansion of space. It took three decades of scheduling telescope time, looking at exactly the right places in space at exactly the right time, to find enough supernovas to have data to even analyze. Not a whole lot of non-trivial…

But honestly, there's a lot that is (particularly for simulation like stuff which can be implemented in code). We should expect to see a bunch of extra output here, which might improve scientific productivity (even though the real bottlenecks are gonna be the academic publishers and their fixation on holding on to their copyrights).

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#580

Post by philipwhiuk »

chatmasta wrote: post #314

Does anyone have the actual list of 100? Maybe I missed it but I don’t see the link or list in the article.

Providing the whole list would probably allow the government to identify the person who leaked it to Reuters.
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