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GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

discuss.grapheneos.org

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Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#571

Post by dredmorbius »

dredmorbius wrote: post #213
mvdtnz wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how it's relevant. I couldn't possibly have made it any more clear I would not buy a Google device, new or used, because I don't like Google.

That's a value judgement, and it's a fair one. It does throw an additional constraint in the works though. FWIW, I've been looking at the mobile / portable computing space fairly intensively for a month or so. I share your quite dim view of Google. GrapheneOS does seem to be one of the most attractive Android alternatives. There are also Lineage (based on CyanogenMod), AOSP, KaiOS (based on AOSP, via Firefox OS), Lig…

Among other mobile OSes I've run across: CloudOS and ThreadX, the latter used on some AGM models. Proprietary, non-Linux/non-Android.

Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#572

Post by teekert »

strcat wrote: post #544
teekert wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS is also going into this direction, just open the AppStore, it’s all the cheapest most horrible apps. Temu (shop like you don't give a s* about the planet), addictive AI Waifu’s (who needs human interaction anyway), clean your stuff but fake-time-wasting style (it's free dopamine!), search option’s first hit is often scammy (ie search for MS Authenticator). I feel that Steve ("If you want pr0n get an Android") wou…

You should read https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-stand... about /e/ and also look at what they say about devices with strong privacy and security including but not limited to https://grapheneos.social/deck/@GrapheneOS/11635397373214317... .

I'm aware of this discussion, I don't really like the way the Graphene people communicate, also against FairPhone.

But nevertheless I'm looking forward to their Motorola offer that should come any minute now?

Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#573

Post by fsflover »

skorp01 wrote: post #559
fsflover wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you may be interested in GNU/Linux phones, which do not rely on Google in any way.

I have bad news; Do you know who is a major contributor to the Linux kernel? (It's Google)

They do not decide on the future directions of the development. It's a distributed process with many actors.

Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#574

Post by lucb1e »

d3Xt3r wrote: post #242
lucb1e wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anything they offer for security that's not also in AOSP/LineageOS/eOS/stock/etc. Which is not to say that's not enough for most people, but why highlight them? It doesn't seem comparable to the laser-focus GrapheneOS has on security

Not GP, but Volla phones are cool in that they officially support running proper Linux[1], so you could just use Linux instead of Android if that's enough for your needs. And you can still boot into their de-Googled Android if you need to run Android apps. [1] https://volla.online/en/operating-systems/ubuntu-touch/

Oh, one vendor supporting multiple OSes! I hadn't clicked through (https://volla.online/en/operating-systems/), that is neat indeed and quite a unique selling point among mobile vendors

This should have gone in my spreadsheet before I chose a new device xD. Ah well, next time

Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#575

Post by lucb1e »

HybridStatAnim8 wrote: post #517
d3Xt3r wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not GP, but Volla phones are cool in that they officially support running proper Linux[1], so you could just use Linux instead of Android if that's enough for your needs. And you can still boot into their de-Googled Android if you need to run Android apps. [1] https://volla.online/en/operating-systems/ubuntu-touch/

Android similarly supports, and in fact uses, "proper" Linux. Android and its forks are Linux distributions. You can use a mainline kernel in Android just fine.

Nah, Android is not a really a proper Linux system that 'supports' Linux software within any reasonable definition of the word; not anymore at least

Root nowadays gets you very little: software like wavemon that worked great on Android 4.4 no longer runs because selinux or whatever restrictions block nearly everything from working that isn't going through the Android API channels. Accessing external storage from Linux Deploy (running your favorite distro in userspace with root) no longer works; thankfully it does from Termux so I have some way of manipulating the files with standard Linux tools, but then that keeps getting killed and you need to restart sshd a few times per day if you want to actually use that as a remote access method for your photos.

The Linux processes are being shot at left and right, it's go android or go bust on android. Perhaps that sounded redundant but it used to be that you could install Xorg, Virtualbox and other GUI software, and knock yourself out. No more

Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#576

Post by [deleted] »

wolvoleo wrote: post #561
Groxx wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an extremely strange rewriting of history in which Google is some kind of altruist, moved by the plight of suffering school-children in a brief period where the rich bullying the poor (something truly shocking and unprecedented) over the color of their messages simply couldn't be tolerated any further.

Yeah what would really get me onboard with RCS if it were actually open, if I could choose which RCS provider I wanted to use. Like a privacy-driven foundation similar to Signal. Someone I could actually trust. But that would mean that the entire protocol would have to be made open including E2EE, and that other parties besides Google and the telcos would be allowed to run servers. Those things are very unlikely to h…

[deleted]

Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#577

Post by lucb1e »

gf000 wrote: post #446
d3Xt3r wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu Touch (or any Linux distro for that matter) offers drastically more freedom than GrapheneOS or any other Android distribution. Some people care more about freedom than so called "security", and I don't know about you, but I'll take freedom any day.

Freedom to get a stroke from an incomplete toy OS? Snark aside, desktop Linux userspace (or gnu Linux, call it how you want) is nowhere near production ready. And even for the more general point, giving out root willy-nilly is not more freedom. It's more like letting your child play on the 5th floor of a half-constructed building that's about to be exploded. Your kid can enjoy their time just as much in the safe fore…

> giving out root willy-nilly is not more freedom. It's more like letting your child play on the 5th floor of a half-constructed building that's about to be exploded

I take it you don't use desktop OSes anymore of any kind and call child support whenever you see a parent letting their kid use one? Better protect them from themselves in case they can't handle sudo / UAC prompts and give access (xkcd.com/1200) to the wrong process

This sort of logic really boggles my mind to see on hacker news

Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#578

Post by lucb1e »

Cider9986 wrote: post #447
d3Xt3r wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu Touch (or any Linux distro for that matter) offers drastically more freedom than GrapheneOS or any other Android distribution. Some people care more about freedom than so called "security", and I don't know about you, but I'll take freedom any day.

How can you be free when you're not private or secure? Grapheneos is fully open source and comes with 0 Google services. >so called "security" Grapheneos is widely recognized as one of the most secure operating systems.

> Grapheneos is fully open source and comes with 0 Google services.

And calls the open source microG a threat while encouraging people to install google mobile services, conveniently provided from their preinstalled app store, which most people will need for at least some of the apps they need in daily life, so everyone ends up with GMS installed in their main profile. A real bastion of freedom and choice.

Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#579

Post by Groxx »

wolvoleo wrote: post #561
Groxx wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an extremely strange rewriting of history in which Google is some kind of altruist, moved by the plight of suffering school-children in a brief period where the rich bullying the poor (something truly shocking and unprecedented) over the color of their messages simply couldn't be tolerated any further.

Yeah what would really get me onboard with RCS if it were actually open, if I could choose which RCS provider I wanted to use. Like a privacy-driven foundation similar to Signal. Someone I could actually trust. But that would mean that the entire protocol would have to be made open including E2EE, and that other parties besides Google and the telcos would be allowed to run servers. Those things are very unlikely to h…

I wouldn't be particularly surprised if they're hiding the spec / charging pointless $$$ to reduce access, but I was under the impression that it would be available, like RCS's spec itself. e.g.:

the RCS v3 page: https://www.gsma.com/solutions-and-impact/technologies/netwo...

^ which links to the E2EE v1 spec: https://www.gsma.com/solutions-and-impact/technologies/netwo... ("download" is a direct link to a pdf file)

and https://media.gsma.com/assets/2026/rcs/RCC.16+v3.0.pdf is v3.0, which appears possibly detailed enough at a glance, and there seems to be a v4 and I can't download v2 due to a broken page. but I have no idea what's currently supported anywhere in practice, if any.

Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#580

Post by wolvoleo »

Groxx wrote: post #579
wolvoleo wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah what would really get me onboard with RCS if it were actually open, if I could choose which RCS provider I wanted to use. Like a privacy-driven foundation similar to Signal. Someone I could actually trust. But that would mean that the entire protocol would have to be made open including E2EE, and that other parties besides Google and the telcos would be allowed to run servers. Those things are very unlikely to h…

I wouldn't be particularly surprised if they're hiding the spec / charging pointless $$$ to reduce access, but I was under the impression that it would be available, like RCS's spec itself. e.g.: the RCS v3 page: https://www.gsma.com/solutions-and-impact/technologies/netwo... ^ which links to the E2EE v1 spec: https://www.gsma.com/solutions-and-impact/technologies/netwo... ("download" is a direct link to a pdf file)…

Ah when I last checked the E2EE was only in practice implemented by Google and invented by them. It looks like this might have been opened up, unless this is an earlier version somehow? And interconnect traffic to e.g. iMessage was not E2EE.

I have to look up on this again as the last time I looked at it was during late corona (2022? 2023?) when there was a local talk to adopt RCS (which failed)

But the problem remains that they simply won't talk to you if you set up your own server. You have to be in a select club to be able to run one.

It's very unlikely I'll ever switch it on because I don't use any google account on my Android and I don't trust them nor the carriers for reasons I've clarified in the other posts in this thread.

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