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Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

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Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#571

Post by carlmr »

Ma8ee wrote: post #550
spiderfarmer wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling Reddit a CRUD app isn’t wrong, it’s just vacuous. It strips away every part that actually makes Reddit hard. What happens when you sign up? A CRUD app shows a form and inserts a row. Reddit runs bot detection, rate limits, fingerprinting, shadow restrictions, and abuse heuristics you don’t even see, and you don’t know which ones, because that knowledge is their moat. What happens when you upvote or downvote?…

Why do you think the app they call a clone of Reddit do all of those things, or most, or any?

I was thinking the exact same thing. Moltbook isn't that sophisticated. We're moving goal posts a lot here.

However, I do think 1 week is ambitious, even for a bad clone.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#572

Post by Ygg2 »

scotty79 wrote: post #480
bodge5000 wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get its necessary for investment, but I'd be a lot happier with these tools if we didn't keep making these wild claims, because I'm certainly not seeing 10x the output. When I ask for examples, 90% its claude code (not a beacon of good software anyway but if nearly everyone is pointing to one example it tells you thats the best you can probably expect) and 10% weekend projects, which are cool, but not 10x cool. Opu…

Have you seen moltbook? One dude coded reddit clone for bots in less the a week. How is it not at least 10x of what was achievable in pre-ai world? Granted he left the db open to public, but some meat powered startups did exactly the same few years ago.

Have you seen the shitshow moltbook was?

Anyone could insert themselves AI or not. Anyone could post any number of likes.

This isn't a Reddit clone. This is Reddit written by Highschoolers.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#573

Post by IhateAI »

mark242 wrote: post #215
rglover wrote: post #139

A significant number of developers and businesses are going to have an absolutely brutal rude awakening in the not too distant future. You can build things this way, and they may work for a time, but you don't know what you don't know (and experience teaches you that you only find most stuff by building/struggling; not sipping a soda while the AI blurts out potentially secure/stable code). The hubris around AI is goi…

I would argue that it's going to be the opposite. At re:Invent, one of the popular sessions was in creating a trio of SRE agents, one of which did nothing but read logs and report errors, one of which did analysis of the errors and triaged and proposed fixes, and one to do the work and submit PRs to your repo. Then, as part of the session, you would artificially introduce a bug into the system, then run into the bug…

[dead]

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#574

Post by rsynnott »

mark242 wrote: post #215
rglover wrote: post #139

A significant number of developers and businesses are going to have an absolutely brutal rude awakening in the not too distant future. You can build things this way, and they may work for a time, but you don't know what you don't know (and experience teaches you that you only find most stuff by building/struggling; not sipping a soda while the AI blurts out potentially secure/stable code). The hubris around AI is goi…

I would argue that it's going to be the opposite. At re:Invent, one of the popular sessions was in creating a trio of SRE agents, one of which did nothing but read logs and report errors, one of which did analysis of the errors and triaged and proposed fixes, and one to do the work and submit PRs to your repo. Then, as part of the session, you would artificially introduce a bug into the system, then run into the bug…

An AI thing demoed well? Well, colour me shocked.

Amazon, which employs many thousands of SREs (or, well, pseudo-SREs; AIUI it's not quite the conventional SRE role), is presumably just doing so for charitable purposes, if they are so easy to replace with magic robots.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#575

Post by rsynnott »

athrowaway3z wrote: post #313
dasil003 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with both you and the GP. Yes, coding is being totally revolutionized by AI, and we don't really know where the ceiling will be (though I'm skeptical we'll reach true AGI any time soon), but I believe there still an essential element of understanding how computer systems work that is required to leverage AI in a sustainable way. There is some combination of curiosity of inner workings and precision of thought…

I can see why people are skeptical devs can be 10x as productive. But something I'd bet money on is that devs are 10x more productive at using these tools.

> But something I'd bet money on is that devs are 10x more productive at using these tools.

If this were true, we should be seeing evidence of it by now, either in vastly increased output by companies (and open source projects, and indie game devs, etc), or in really _dramatic_ job losses.

This is assuming a sensible definition of 'productive'; if you mean 'lines of code' or 'self-assessment', then, eh, maybe, but those aren't useful metrics of productivity.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#576

Post by rsynnott »

scotty79 wrote: post #480
bodge5000 wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get its necessary for investment, but I'd be a lot happier with these tools if we didn't keep making these wild claims, because I'm certainly not seeing 10x the output. When I ask for examples, 90% its claude code (not a beacon of good software anyway but if nearly everyone is pointing to one example it tells you thats the best you can probably expect) and 10% weekend projects, which are cool, but not 10x cool. Opu…

Have you seen moltbook? One dude coded reddit clone for bots in less the a week. How is it not at least 10x of what was achievable in pre-ai world? Granted he left the db open to public, but some meat powered startups did exactly the same few years ago.

Remember the Ruby on Rails hype? You could make a twitter clone in an afternoon! It obviously wouldn't work properly, but, y'know...

This is, like, not the industry's first run-in with "this makes you 10x more productive!"

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#577

Post by rsynnott »

kaydub wrote: post #328
seba_dos1 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unless you are only ever a single engineer, your career is filled with "I need to debug code I didn't write". That's the vast majority of my job and I've yet to find a way to have LLMs not be almost but not entirely useless at helping me with it. (also, it's filled with that even when you are a single engineer)

I hope you realize that means your position is in danger.

Eh? If all the things that LLMs are not very good at (a long list), they are particularly not good at debugging.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#578

Post by spiderfarmer »

carlmr wrote: post #571
Ma8ee wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think the app they call a clone of Reddit do all of those things, or most, or any?

I was thinking the exact same thing. Moltbook isn't that sophisticated. We're moving goal posts a lot here. However, I do think 1 week is ambitious, even for a bad clone.

So if Reddit is just a CRUD app, what is Moltbook?

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#579

Post by spiderfarmer »

csande17 wrote: post #549
spiderfarmer wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling Reddit a CRUD app isn’t wrong, it’s just vacuous. It strips away every part that actually makes Reddit hard. What happens when you sign up? A CRUD app shows a form and inserts a row. Reddit runs bot detection, rate limits, fingerprinting, shadow restrictions, and abuse heuristics you don’t even see, and you don’t know which ones, because that knowledge is their moat. What happens when you upvote or downvote?…

Moltbook didn't do any of that stuff either, though!

So if Reddit is just a CRUD app, what is Moltbook

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#580

Post by rsynnott »

straydusk wrote: post #247
rglover wrote: post #139

A significant number of developers and businesses are going to have an absolutely brutal rude awakening in the not too distant future. You can build things this way, and they may work for a time, but you don't know what you don't know (and experience teaches you that you only find most stuff by building/struggling; not sipping a soda while the AI blurts out potentially secure/stable code). The hubris around AI is goi…

Have you considered that betting against the models and ecosystem improving might be a bad bet, and you might be the one who is in for a rude awakening?

I mean, if it ever gets good, eh, I suppose I'll use it? Pre-emptively using it in case it one day works properly seems rather perverse, tho.
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