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Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

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Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#571

Post by svara »

kadushka wrote: post #563
lamename wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. Those could be the case. But ignoring all confounding factors, this phenomenon is possible with numerical experiments alone. One of the meanings of "the Law of Small Numbers". Basically, the possibility that the small study was underpowered, and just lucky...then the large studies with more power are closer to the truth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization

Sure, could be just lucky. But if there are several successful small studies, and several unsuccessful large ones (no idea if this is the case here), we should probably look for a better explanation.

It does not require more explanation: publication bias means null results aren't in the literature; do enough small low quality trials and you'll find a big effect sooner or later.

Then the supposed big effect attracts attention and ultimately properly designed studies which show no effect.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#572

Post by dddw »

charles_f wrote: post #518
dddw wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree, althouh quiting it altogether might simply help with establishing the new habit.

But replacing it with decaf is also easier to get into.

Yeah, some people need to go cold turkey. Or... Help them out by replacing their coffee with decaf without them knowing. ;D

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#573

Post by mezzode »

Xunjin wrote: post #38
r1ch wrote: post #4

Please do not take 5000mg/day of Vitamin D. The author confuses IU and mg which is very dangerous.

It's unbelievable crazy what the author suggests, even say "10,000 IU if you're feeling daring / have darker skin / live in less sunny climates.". Just a simple look at the side effects of high dosages: Safety and side effects Taken in typical doses, vitamin D is thought to be mainly safe. But taking too much vitamin D in the form of supplements can be harmful and even deadly. Taking more than 4,000 IU a day of vitam…

It depends on the person, as a sample size of one I was on 5,000IU and my levels were still on the low end (almost still deficient), and my calcium levels were still safely on the low side as well. Ultimately people should be getting their levels checked before and after to see exactly what the effect on them is

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#574

Post by pixl97 »

andai wrote: post #370
ghusto wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hate on antidepressants is not because they're not effective, but rather that they're abused by psychiatrists. Ideally, a professional will prescribe them as a necessary helper to becoming (more) mentally healthy whilst tackling the root cause. Most of the time however, it's more of a "here, take these indefinitely". It's like if we took sleeping pills every time we had trouble sleeping. Having said that, I just…

> It's like if we took sleeping pills every time we had trouble sleeping. Having said that, I just realised I have the impression that's exactly what people do in the USA? I can't speak for USA but in parts of Europe a lot of people have PTSD that prevents normal sleep, so they end up on these pills, and then they end up with PTSD and worse insomnia caused by long term use of sleep meds. I think it's just incentives.…

The easiest way to deal with horrible trauma is to prevent said trauma in the next generation.

What is either revealing or terrifying is seeing how many people attempt to prevent that. Sexual abuse for example is pretty rampant in the US. Sexual education at a young age so people know they are being abused under no uncertain terms is a good solution for this.

And yet you will run into far too many people that under no uncertain terms want their children to be excused from sex abuse education. What deeply concerns me is when you see people with this position that you know where sexually abused themselves.

I don't know, people really suck.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#575

Post by ulnarkressty »

Noaidi wrote: post #463
anonymous344 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

have u ever tried niacin?

Yes. Made me manic. You know we make niacin in our own bodies, from tryptophan, down the kynurenine pathway. Sine many of the enzymes that are in this pathway need B6 and B2, being low in these may lower endogenous niacin in the body. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353319033/figure/fi... Many people I know, when tested, were low in B6. That is more important to me than niacin.

For others who want to try this, taking too much B6 is associated with nerve damage - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megavitamin-B6_syndrome

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#576

Post by pixl97 »

thewebguyd wrote: post #524
kstrauser wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes the root problem is that your neurochemistry is FUBAR and no amount of counseling with overcome a biological cause. Frankly, I see this as similar to telling diabetics that they should use just enough insulin to get them to learn to stop being diabetic. That’s possible for a few type 2 diabetics who could make lifestyle changes that got them back into good ranges. It’s completely useless for type 1 diabetic…

> I’m just always astonished at “have you tried not being depressed?” There's a lot of this attitude, at least in the USA, when it comes to mental illness in general. I have ADHD, it's a common trope/meme at this point of "Have you just tried focusing?" "Gee thanks, I'm cured!" It's a form of institutional ableism, particularly prevalent in the US I think because of our hyper individualist culture. A lot of people te…

>in the US I think because of our hyper individualist culture.

Calvinism.

There's been a number of papers written about how pervasive Calvinistic ideas are in the medical community. This tracks with the New England area of the US pumped out the most doctors while medicine was 'growing up', and protestant christianity was the most common form there. When you view the creation of the US medical system with that view many of our screwed up systems make sense. A lack of willpower is a failure of man to be in touch with god, and not a problem a doctor should solve.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#577

Post by pixl97 »

kstrauser wrote: post #529
thewebguyd wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m just always astonished at “have you tried not being depressed?” There's a lot of this attitude, at least in the USA, when it comes to mental illness in general. I have ADHD, it's a common trope/meme at this point of "Have you just tried focusing?" "Gee thanks, I'm cured!" It's a form of institutional ableism, particularly prevalent in the US I think because of our hyper individualist culture. A lot of people te…

That was my experience with ADHD. In retrospect, I clearly struggled with it my entire life, with it starting to cause problems around middle school age. I started getting treatment a couple years ago and it was like someone flipped a light switch. Wait, this is what it's like for everyone else? They can just decide to start doing a necessary thing before it becomes a crisis?! In before "of course things are easier w…

What is that they say, if you have ADHD then ADHD medication doesn't act like a stimulant in the same way it affects non ADHD people.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#578

Post by Fischgericht »

chasil wrote: post #224
ghusto wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hate on antidepressants is not because they're not effective, but rather that they're abused by psychiatrists. Ideally, a professional will prescribe them as a necessary helper to becoming (more) mentally healthy whilst tackling the root cause. Most of the time however, it's more of a "here, take these indefinitely". It's like if we took sleeping pills every time we had trouble sleeping. Having said that, I just…

Every time I have a yearly physical, my GP will ask if I have feelings of depression. I know this road leads to SSRIs at the very least, so I always reply in the negative. The parent comment hints to me that this might be a mistake. I do not want to become accustomed to an antidepressant, so perhaps my course of action was correct. I was measured low on Vitamin D, which I've hopefully corrected, and I haven't always…

You really should give some modern SSRI like Escitalopram a chance. It has made my life so much better, and that of a lot of friends, too. The two most common complaints I have heard are:

1.) It's killing my libido 2.) It's too strong

For 1.) - yes, this is a very very common side effect. And it's logical - you simply get "triggered" less. Applies for me, too.

And 2.) is the same that a lot of people fail to understand: Then try a lower dosage!

Unlike most anti-depressants, where you have to constantly increase the dose because your brain just generates more receptors to fight back, SSRIs hardly wear off.

Also, relax about the "become accustomed" part. Should your Serotonin levels be too low, then they are too low. Just think about it like you think about table salt. It would be just as unhealthy to try to "get off" salt.

All of this being said: There are tons of different kinds of root causes for depression. A good rule of thumb is: Are you depressed because bad things happened to you? Then seek psychological therapy, and potentially combine this with medication in case it would be too painful to uncover the dark things. Are you depressed on a regular basis, but can not name any valid logical reason? Then your brain has a chemical problem, so stop treating it like this is an illness, but do what you would do if your car would turn on the "oil warning" lamp. You can not replace oil with therapy or willpower.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#579

Post by pixl97 »

freedomben wrote: post #288
staticassertion wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know this road leads to SSRIs at the very least, so I always reply in the negative. Seems odd. Your doctor can't force you to take anything. If they say "do you want to try X?" just say "No". Not giving your doctor full medical context seems like a mistake - for example, maybe depression would be indicative of another issue, or maybe people who are depressed really shouldn't take a specific medication. To each th…

Agreed. A friend of mine is a primary care doctor, and it's remarkable how often people come in for depression and after examination and labs it turns out their depression is heavily influenced by other issues, especially low testosterone or hypothyroid. A lot more people have issues with these than most people realize. There have also been people he has seen who were reporting depression, often where nearly every an…

>often where nearly every anti-depressant had been tried, where getting treatment for ADHD

This is actually a somewhat difficult diagnosis to make, especially when diagnosing adult ADHD without the user documenting and bringing in a well defined log of their behavior (and possibly another person to point out things they don't know about themselves).

>ADHD is a highly heterogeneous disorder with a significant comorbidity rate.

Is thing that you read about in literature around it. And even more common than that is the comorbidity of all the above symptoms, that is ADHD and depression + more in autism.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#580

Post by seba_dos1 »

hirvi74 wrote: post #544

I started back on Vitamin-D and Omega-3 (with extra EPA & DHA) about 2 months ago or so. Sadly, I don't feel much of a difference, but I believe the potential harms are quite minimal, so I am going to maintain supplementation for the purposes of self-experimentation.

It took me more than 3 months to get to the lower edge of the desired range with my blood level on about 8000 UI daily. There was no instant improvement, it takes time.

Do keep your levels in check though.

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