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Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

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Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#571

Post by bigstrat2003 »

swiftcoder wrote: post #100
onli wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any iOS advantage with the apps anymore. That was maybe true in the very beginning, during the gold rush time of the app store. But not since then. In which category are there better iOS apps? Browsers? No, strictly worse. Youtube app? No, worse. Texting? Worse or equal (Whatsapp). Podcast client? I assume worse, since there is no Antenna Pod. Social media apps? The iOS variants of those apps are afaik in…

> In which category are there better iOS apps? Almost all of the prosumer apps on iOS offer a consistently better experience. This is maybe less relevant on phones than on tablets, but music production, video editing, digital painting and drafting, etc...

That isn't saying much. Even the best possible music editing (etc) app on a tablet is still crappy, by virtue of the form factor. Tablets simply are not suitable for getting actual work done.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#572

Post by realusername »

IshKebab wrote: post #492
fsflover wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram desktop app works flawlessly on Mobian, PureOS, postmarketOS though. Whatsapp web version can be used, too. > So you need some way to run Android apps... which is totally possible, but at that point why not just use Android? Perhaps for reasons like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639261

> Whatsapp web version can be used, too. Pretty awful UX, and you still need an Android phone to actually run WhatsApp. > Perhaps for reasons like this When I say "use Android", I mean the codebase, not necessarily Google's Android. Something like PostmarketOS.

PostmarketOS doesn't use the Android codebase, they work on upstreaming devices with a standard Linux kernel, so the opposite. They act mostly the same way as a desktop distribution. They do use the downstream image but mostly as a reference to remove it.

Ubuntu Touch does use the Android vendor images though through the libhybris compatibility layer, that's why they have some good compatibility, if the phone has a lineageos image, there's a good chance that it'll work with Ubuntu Touch.

The downside of that is the same as Lineageos, they are stuck on whatever kernel the device shipped with and it can be ancient.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#573

Post by lokar »

koolala wrote: post #467
lokar wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what is missing here is the growing trend of scammers convincing people they are their bank (or whatever) and walking them through enabling side-loading and then installing malware (sometimes to address some urgent security issues with their account). This is meant to counter an actual issues that is affecting many many users.

Should we whitelist the whole web for this reason too? Why does that trend use apps and not websites?

In the impacted nations people only use phones, and the local banking ecosystem is really focused on apps. I think most people would never think to use their bank website.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#574

Post by Forgeties79 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #435
swiftcoder wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, as someone who is mainly a programmer, same. But high-end cameras, big touchscreens, and an excellent pencil input is sort of the optimal device for a whole bunch of creative tasks

Are the cameras "high-end"? Good for a phone, certainly. But compared to a real camera with a much bigger lens and sensor?

They can certainly hang with some of the big dogs.

Apple’s camera(s) and color science is fantastic. The black magic app in particular shows off their capability.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#575

Post by lokar »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #512
lokar wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think calling people who don’t really understand computer security a can be tricked “stupid” is fair or helpful. Designing a product so that almost all of it’s intended users can operate it safely seems like the right decision.

How is it unfair? Are you assuming only intelligent people use Android?

Not at all. There are a lot of people in the world. Many of them are not nearly as interested in tech as you, or have simply not have the reason or access to learn more. That does not make them stupid.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#576

Post by lokar »

gmueckl wrote: post #549
lokar wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think calling people who don’t really understand computer security a can be tricked “stupid” is fair or helpful. Designing a product so that almost all of it’s intended users can operate it safely seems like the right decision.

Wait a second... making a product that is safe and easy to use requires removing or mitigating potential hazards involving product. Building safeguards around a feature that can be used to hurt people in significant ways is exactly that, isn't it?

Are you responding to me? I think we agree. I'm saying that calling scam victims "stupid" and then not trying to change the product to protect them is bad.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#577

Post by Klonoar »

onli wrote: post #56
AlotOfReading wrote: post #12

Google's long term strategy with Android is baffling to me. Apple has had better mobile hardware for years. Apple has higher consumer trust. Apple has better app selection (for most people). Apple has been increasingly implementing the core features that differentiate Android devices, like USB-C and RCS. Every Android user lost to the increasing iOS market share is another customer Google has to pay exorbitant fees t…

I don't see any iOS advantage with the apps anymore. That was maybe true in the very beginning, during the gold rush time of the app store. But not since then. In which category are there better iOS apps? Browsers? No, strictly worse. Youtube app? No, worse. Texting? Worse or equal (Whatsapp). Podcast client? I assume worse, since there is no Antenna Pod. Social media apps? The iOS variants of those apps are afaik in…

It’s not “strictly worse” for browsers unless you care about esoteric web spec features that few sites actually need today.

Safari works fine. 99% of users legitimately do not give a fuck.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#578

Post by bigstrat2003 »

mexicocitinluez wrote: post #367
manuelabeledo wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google core business is ads. It is not the same.

The difference between Apple vs Google is that with Apple you ARE the ad. They don't need advertising when they know people will adopt them and then be forced into their ecosystem.

> They don't need advertising

Then why is it that they advertise? We just last week had a thread about how the Apple app store is making ads blend in more with organic results. So not only are they advertising to users (which admittedly was news to me), they are engaging in dark patterns to make those ads more enticing. It doesn't seem like being locked into the Apple ecosystem (and paying their tax on hardware) is actually benefiting the users.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#579

Post by lokar »

seg_lol wrote: post #405
lokar wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what is missing here is the growing trend of scammers convincing people they are their bank (or whatever) and walking them through enabling side-loading and then installing malware (sometimes to address some urgent security issues with their account). This is meant to counter an actual issues that is affecting many many users.

Is the solution to make it harder? Or is the threat of scammers and the insecurity of the OS used as false flag to make installing software outside of the profitable walled garden much much harder?

I doubt that side-loading impacts revenue all that much. Alternate stores are the real, potential, risk to $.

I think the solution is to come up with a balance between the needs of different groups of users. People here see the phone as a general purpose computer they should be able to modify and use for all kinds of novel tasks. This is great, and should be fully supported.

But there are also many, many more people who see the phone as an important way to enable a higher standard of living. Giving them access to information, government services and banking for the first time. They are not technically sophisticated, and don't need or want a general purpose computer.

So, we need platform providers to come up with ways to work out who is who, and give each side what they need.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#580

Post by Klonoar »

grishka wrote: post #221
necovek wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure it is your whole country or it's you? I mostly buy my phones outright too, but I am under no impression that everybody else does it as well.

In my country, for example, buying phones from carriers as part of your plan just isn't a thing . As in, you couldn't do it even if you wanted to. Same for postpaid plans and contracts. As a result, quite a lot of people use the "I can't believe they could make and sell an entire phone at this price" Xiaomi and similar phones.

Name the country if you want this to be a useful data point.
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