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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#571

Post by MiiMe19 »

costcopizza wrote: post #463
melenaboija wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

I can 100% confidently say the average US buyer is not an auto enthusiast. Cars are appliances to the vast majority of people here. There are multiple other factors for the relatively low adoption of EVs compared to China.

Explain to me why I should want an electric car?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#572

Post by david-gpu »

NetMageSCW wrote: post #551
david-gpu wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disingenuous? Plenty of people live without a car.

By choice? Life is short enough, I don’t need to waste it providing power to travel to work and back when I can save 1.5 hours per work day driving. (And more if I go to lunch.)

Yes, plenty of people choose active transportation. Once they give it a try they see that not only it is about as fast as driving, but it feels great, too.

I don't know your particular circumstances, but unless you have tried riding a bike to work you probably don't have a good sense of how long it would take you.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#573

Post by pjc50 »

aryonoco wrote: post #272
melenaboija wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

Car enthusiast here. I raced in Formula Ford in Europe in my younger days. I still dream about the day I drove a 911 GT2. Nearly every car I’ve ever owned has been a manual. But with the ridiculous tax incentives here in Australia (at least while they last), my new car turned out to be an EV. Specifically the Hyundai Ioniq 5 N. And let me tell you, while the logical part of my brain knows that the gear shifts and the…

The Ioniq 5N is extremely funny on paper. It's not wildly expensive, nor is it greatly modified from stock, but the engineers decided to just completely overspec the torque on what is otherwise an ordinary family car. So you get a 0-60 time of about three seconds.

I'm slightly surprised there aren't more cheap electric "hot hatches", but I think that market is dead even in ICE cars - young people don't have much free cash, aren't interested, and the insurers won't let them either.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#574

Post by bluGill »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #265
nielsbot wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence the urgent need for charging infrastructure: Incentives to install charges in homes and rental unit garages and at curbsides.

Isn't it a lot easier just to sell people hybrids instead?

In the short run. When I replaced my minivan with a PHEV my gas bill went down $200/month, my electric bill went up $30. Chargers where people park is a long term investment in lower costs for everyone. Hopefully chargers are everywhere in the future so we don't need the ICE at all. (I just bought a EV, I've barely had it a week and already have run out of battery - I was just able to reach a charger, but it required changing my route since there were none along the route I wanted)

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#575

Post by NetMageSCW »

vlovich123 wrote: post #207
pixl97 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US for example, most of the US brands are already made in China. They will copy the tooling and put a different brand name on it and you'll have a tool of the same quality for way less cost. Simply put China is an unrecognized superpower at this point with the investments they've already made. The amount of infrastructure they've built in a decade dwarfs what the West has done in decades.

Sorry, the country with nukes, nuclear submarines, a massive navy and a permanent member on the UN Security Council isn’t recognized as a superpower? By whom?

What massive Navy would that be?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#576

Post by catigula »

jansper39 wrote: post #422
psychoslave wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly doubt any current car will stand longevity of those cars. The maintenance entry cost of anything with integrated electronic is just several order of magnitude in complexity.

Modern cars are far more reliable than old 'analogue' cars - primarily because of the integrated electronics. ECUs can detect when engines are running rich or lean, knocking or 100 other edge cases and adjust accordingly. Switch to an EV and it's even simpler, you can get away with a motor, battery, BMS and inverter and you can get just about any soapbox to move.

This definitely isn't true. This was measured by Consumer Reports and Toyota hybrids were the most reliable power trains.

This is likely due to experience, regardless, it's the reality.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#577

Post by NoGravitas »

fooker wrote: post #367
onion2k wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but compared to an era when horses were used as a practical form of transport the number is effectively zero. Horses are a novelty that wealthy people play with. ICE cars will go the same way.

I think we are going to be driving hybrids in large numbers for several decades until there's a new battery technology that triples energy density over the state of the art now. It can be invented sooner of course, technology prediction never really works.

The smartest direction for someone manufacturing for the US market right now is probably EREVs aka serial hybrids - pure electric drivetrain, onboard gas generator. Only use gas when you're taking the kids to Grandma's, or when some obstacle prevents you from charging normally. Ford seems to be going in this direction, possibly a little late.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#578

Post by englishspot »

melenaboija wrote: post #166
bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

as a wannabe "car enthusiast", I'd happily buy a fun EV if one existed for a reasonable price. the xiaomi su7 for example looks incredible, and I'd jump on that if sold here in the US in a heartbeat.

but for the majority of people, yeah, I don't think they really care either way. if we had the infrastructure and EVs were sold at the prices that people are seeing for the Chinese EVs, I think they'd switch away from ICE fairly easily.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#579

Post by mindfulmark »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #64
rr808 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanese and Chinese are very different buckets. What is the long term reliability of Chinese cars? Nobody knows.

I wouldn't be too concerned. Hyundai used to be synonymous with "garbage".

Anecdotal, but I'm extremely disappointed with my Hyundai Tucson purchase. It's the first car I've owned. The drive train is gone on it and the mechanic says it's a common issue. Only 140k on it, 2019. It's hard to believe I paid so much for it and got so little use.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#580

Post by NetMageSCW »

0xcafecafe wrote: post #471
thomas_witt wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a customer for years, I have to politely disagree. Design is obviously a totally personal matter of taste, but as they have made many iconic shapes, apparently they're in the broad opinion not too bad at it. The main difference is driving. I have driven many cars in my life, from very cheap to very expensive. For me personally, Porsche is in my opinion comparable to using a Mac - they're one of the few who "get…

That is interesting. Thanks for sharing I was interested in trying out a Porsche. Do the oil changes and other maintenance items cost significantly more than other makers?

If you prefer dealer maintenance, definitely. And tires cost more and are used up quickly (though BEVs may be similar here).
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