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How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

heise.de

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Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, and your plan is to just give them the chips they want directly? Of course investing into chip development is slowing China down. Its slower to build their own than for us to give them those chips.

> Oh, and your plan is to just give them the chips they want directly? "Give them"? I love sneaky propagandists. No, make them pay for it. It's what we do to our "allies" so that they are dependent on american tech. > Of course investing into chip development is slowing China down. From a myopic narrow point of view. But viewed more broadly, it has accelerated china's tech development. > Its slower to build their own…

> From a myopic narrow point of view. But viewed more broadly, it has accelerated china's tech development.

Yes. I'm fine with this.

Weakening China in the short term means pushing the Taiwan war timeline by years. Years that we will spend building up the DDG(X).

As I said before and I'll say again: USA is weak in 2020s but strong in the 2030s. We only need to delay China by a few years and the DDG(X) changes everything.

----------

You need to understand that I make my view based on the perceived strength of the US Navy. The US Navy is getting huge upgrades and a few years of delay makes an incredible difference.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#572
post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, what I stated is a view held by reputable scholars such as Noam Chomsky, Jeffrey Sachs, and John Mearsheimer, not just a view you (also) can find in Russian propaganda. Second my point is understanding the Russian POV, regardless of the correctness of that POV. Third, your comment is off base historically. The timeline is: 2007 Putin’s Munich speech warning against NATO expansion to Eastern Europe. Feb 200…

> First off, what I stated is a view held by reputable scholars such as Noam Chomsky, Jeffrey Sachs, and John Mearsheimer, not just a view you (also) can find in Russian propaganda. They are Russian propaganda, Mearsheimer most notably. His books are financed by the Russian government. If these people are your primary sources, you will end up believing that the Holocaust is a lie, the Americans never landed on the Mo…

> They are Russian propaganda, Mearsheimer most notably. His books are financed by the Russian government.

The closest thing I could find about this was that in one of his books he acknowledges partial financing of this one book from a small prize from a Russian internet forum. That’s all I could find. Chomsky and Sachs supposedly fall under this umbrella too, according to you. Presumably criticizing American foreign policy is equivalent to Russian propaganda in your view.

Nor are any of the conspiracy theories you attribute to them something I could find evidence of.

My point there in my comment about these three holding these views was that this isn’t simply Russian fake news. It’s held by some reputable scholars as well. Your response is to claim these scholars too are Russian propagandists, bolstering your case with outright fabrications.

The US leadership openly refers to Ukraine as a proxy war. I do think it’s worth listening to critics of US foreign policy in that context, and not limiting our information diet to European politicians.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh, and your plan is to just give them the chips they want directly? "Give them"? I love sneaky propagandists. No, make them pay for it. It's what we do to our "allies" so that they are dependent on american tech. > Of course investing into chip development is slowing China down. From a myopic narrow point of view. But viewed more broadly, it has accelerated china's tech development. > Its slower to build their own…

> From a myopic narrow point of view. But viewed more broadly, it has accelerated china's tech development. Yes. I'm fine with this. Weakening China in the short term means pushing the Taiwan war timeline by years. Years that we will spend building up the DDG(X). As I said before and I'll say again: USA is weak in 2020s but strong in the 2030s. We only need to delay China by a few years and the DDG(X) changes everyth…

"We"? Okay buddy.

> USA is weak in 2020s but strong in the 2030s.

The US is the largest economy with an unparalleled military at the moment. What are you talking about?

> The US Navy is getting huge upgrades and a few years of delay makes an incredible difference.

For what? The US Navy will play no role in a war between china and taiwan.

No offense, but who gives a shit about taiwan? Not americans. Only chinese people care about taiwan.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From a myopic narrow point of view. But viewed more broadly, it has accelerated china's tech development. Yes. I'm fine with this. Weakening China in the short term means pushing the Taiwan war timeline by years. Years that we will spend building up the DDG(X). As I said before and I'll say again: USA is weak in 2020s but strong in the 2030s. We only need to delay China by a few years and the DDG(X) changes everyth…

"We"? Okay buddy. > USA is weak in 2020s but strong in the 2030s. The US is the largest economy with an unparalleled military at the moment. What are you talking about? > The US Navy is getting huge upgrades and a few years of delay makes an incredible difference. For what? The US Navy will play no role in a war between china and taiwan. No offense, but who gives a shit about taiwan? Not americans. Only chinese peopl…

> For what? The US Navy will play no role in a war between china and taiwan.

Uhhhhh, Taiwan is an island dude. That's either Marines or Navy. I'm betting Navy will do the heavy lifting given that China is missile heavy.

Marines might be used to shore up anti-landing defenses if China decides to send boots on the ground. But ideally the US Navy prevents the landing entirely.

Said war taking place while we have 1980s-era Arleigh Burke Destroyers would be an attack while our Navy is at our weakest. Anything we can do to delay said war until after the DDG(X) upgrade is to our advantage.

> No offense, but who gives a shit about taiwan? Not americans. Only chinese people care about taiwan.

I'm American and I care? That's why I'm arguing on this point.

Current wargames suggest that USA will be willing to dedicate like 2 carrier strike groups for the defense of Taiwan. I'm not sure if it's enough (especially with the aging Arleigh Burke destroyers), but that's the level of commitment mostly assumed in this scenario if not more.

We have like 14 Carrier strike groups for a reason. We can spare two of them to this task, maybe more.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#575
post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First off, what I stated is a view held by reputable scholars such as Noam Chomsky, Jeffrey Sachs, and John Mearsheimer, not just a view you (also) can find in Russian propaganda. They are Russian propaganda, Mearsheimer most notably. His books are financed by the Russian government. If these people are your primary sources, you will end up believing that the Holocaust is a lie, the Americans never landed on the Mo…

> They are Russian propaganda, Mearsheimer most notably. His books are financed by the Russian government. The closest thing I could find about this was that in one of his books he acknowledges partial financing of this one book from a small prize from a Russian internet forum. That’s all I could find. Chomsky and Sachs supposedly fall under this umbrella too, according to you. Presumably criticizing American foreign…

  > ... from a small prize from a Russian internet forum.
The Valdai forum[1] is not "a small internet forum" but the most prominent event run by the Russian government to bring Western politicians, scholars and other notable figures to Russia, treat them like royalty, surround them with agents of influence, and manipulate them into adopting Russian propaganda narratives, which they then repeat in their essays and articles once they return home.

No meaningful discussion takes place there. You can assume that all organizers and domestic attendees are acting under FSB instructions. It is solely an operation by the security services to manipulate Western visitors and turn them into useful idiots. Thus, at least in Eastern Europe, where these tricks are well understood, anyone attending such events is automatically considered suspicious: they must be either utterly clueless or working for Russia. Mearsheimer, somehow, has fallen even deeper and started accepting money.

And it shows. You can look up on YouTube his attempt to debate the Polish foreign minister, completely misrepresenting certain diplomatic events, unaware that Sikorski had been there in person, leading an official delegation. How anyone can take such a buffoon seriously remains a mystery to me. To Russians, he has been one of their best investments. Tens of millions of people have been exposed, through him, to the ideas instilled in him at places like Valdai, believing them to be high-quality expertise from a reputable scholar, when in reality they are nothing more than laundered propaganda.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valdai_Discussion_Club

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#576
post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are Russian propaganda, Mearsheimer most notably. His books are financed by the Russian government. The closest thing I could find about this was that in one of his books he acknowledges partial financing of this one book from a small prize from a Russian internet forum. That’s all I could find. Chomsky and Sachs supposedly fall under this umbrella too, according to you. Presumably criticizing American foreign…

> ... from a small prize from a Russian internet forum. The Valdai forum[1] is not "a small internet forum" but the most prominent event run by the Russian government to bring Western politicians, scholars and other notable figures to Russia, treat them like royalty, surround them with agents of influence, and manipulate them into adopting Russian propaganda narratives, which they then repeat in their essays and arti…

I didn’t say it’s a small forum but a small financial contribution - to one book. This is the totality of actual evidence you have of Mearsheimer, Chomsky, and Sachs being Russian propagandists. Your argument is paper-thin.

Criticizing American foreign policy doesn’t make someone a Russian propagandist.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#577
post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My argument is that Russia was compelled to attack both Georgia and Ukraine because of NATO expansion, or rather preventing NATO expansion, not because of "Putin is crazy, wants to be a Tsar". Your argument is that Russia wants to occupy territory just for the sake of expanding Russia, which is really not logical or reasonable. My argument is that if Mexico or Canada joined a military pact with Russia, the US would i…

Buddy, pal, even if it wasn't absolutely craven to attack a country for fear they'd join a defensive pact because they were afraid you'd attack them, you're already begging the question that Ukraine was about to join NATO, which has been shelved for two decades, and even more off the table for the last decade since joining NATO would have required relinquishing its claim on Crimea. There was a 0% chance of Ukraine jo…

The land grab is Russia's assurance that the crimean pipelines and access to the black sea and the sea of azov remain unchallenged. The pipelines are extremely important to Russia's economy, and they will of course make sure to secure them. Fortunately for Russia, the eastern part of Ukraine also leans pro-Russia, has the most ethnically russian population, votes for pro-russian politicians, and also speaks the most russian, unlike the western part.[1] Russia's strategy is to secure those areas only, since those areas would be the easiest to operate. Russia would never able to rule over the current western ukrainian territories, because of the ethnical and demographical divide.

Russia wouldnt attack both Georgia and Ukraine, and spend billions of resources just for the 0% chance of Ukrainian and Georgian NATO admission. Both Montenegro and Macedonia joined NATO in a matter of months, in the latter case when the regime was toppled. Enabling any talks between NATO and Ukraine/Georgia would be considered extremely terrifying for the national security of Russia.

[1]https://www.eurasian-research.org/publication/geography-of-t...

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#578
post #568
post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My argument is that Russia was compelled to attack both Georgia and Ukraine because of NATO expansion, or rather preventing NATO expansion, not because of "Putin is crazy, wants to be a Tsar". Your argument is that Russia wants to occupy territory just for the sake of expanding Russia, which is really not logical or reasonable. My argument is that if Mexico or Canada joined a military pact with Russia, the US would i…

> My argument is that Russia was compelled to attack both Georgia and Ukraine because of NATO expansion, or rather preventing NATO expansion, not because of "Putin is crazy, wants to be a Tsar". This fails to explain why Russia attacked both countries after NATO had decided not to offer them a path to membership. Putin's intense hostility toward NATO stems from the fact that NATO stands in the way of invading Europe.…

> Putin's intense hostility toward NATO stems from the fact that NATO stands in the way of invading Europe .... > It is a problem for Putin only because he seeks to invade Europe; NATO stands in the way.

These are the most outlandish sensationalist claims I've heard on this subject, that are basically bordering on primary school children discussions. There is absolutely 0% chance or even any rational thought or discussion that has happened by the leadership in Russia on this topic. Not even Russia, but any leader with half a brain would not even simulate this scenario. This is not post WW2 anymore. Even if theoretically Russia had the military capability to "invade Europe", not only would that be the most pointless invasion, since Russia wouldn't be able gain anything after they invaded. What can they gain? They'll go to the banks and loot them, get the gold and send it home? They'll rule over the French or the Germans and make them buy Ladas? Loot some factory machines? They'll install puppets dictators? I really see in no way how this can be anyhow practical or even feasible, even if Russia had that capability. Lets say hypothetically Russia already invaded and occupied Europe, and by tonight their military has control of every piece of territory in Europe, then what? What will they do tomorrow? If you give me a single argument of why that costly occupation of europe would actually give them any benefits that outweigh those costs, then I would surrender this debate to you and never debate this again...

> There is no need for guessing games when Cuba was actually in a military pact with the USSR until 1991 and hosted jets, bombers, missile cruisers and other conventional weapons for decades after the missile crisis. You can read about Soviet warships conducting missile drills off the coast of Florida in old newspapers. This is far more than anyone has done for countries that have joined NATO since the end of the Cold War. And yet, the US did not invade Cuba.

Cuba and Russia were never in a FORMAL military alliance or pact, since that would've provoked an immediate US invasion. They were collaborating when needed given their mutual enemy - the US. What brought the missile crisis was the planning of Russia to install nuclear weapons on the island that threatened the US (they were never installed for your information), this was as a result of the US initially installing similar nuclear weapons in Italy, Turkey and England, and also as a result of the CIA training a paramilitary cuban force to overthrow Castro (which failed of course). Again this crisis was brought on solely because of US actions, but that is out of scope for this argument. But after the missile crisis, Russia never really escalated, never put any weapons that were threatening to the US, and the only military help Cuba got was for the defense from attempts of overthrowing Castro by the US-led cabal.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#579
post #578
post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My argument is that Russia was compelled to attack both Georgia and Ukraine because of NATO expansion, or rather preventing NATO expansion, not because of "Putin is crazy, wants to be a Tsar". This fails to explain why Russia attacked both countries after NATO had decided not to offer them a path to membership. Putin's intense hostility toward NATO stems from the fact that NATO stands in the way of invading Europe.…

> Putin's intense hostility toward NATO stems from the fact that NATO stands in the way of invading Europe .... > It is a problem for Putin only because he seeks to invade Europe; NATO stands in the way. These are the most outlandish sensationalist claims I've heard on this subject, that are basically bordering on primary school children discussions. There is absolutely 0% chance or even any rational thought or discu…

  > There is absolutely 0% chance or even any rational thought or discussion that has happened by the leadership in Russia on this topic.
All military and intelligence chiefs of the European nations that share a border with Russia disagree with that and warn that their societies must be prepared for an invasion within 2 to 5 years after the war in Ukraine ends. What you call "outlandish sensational claims" by "primary school children" is something they take very seriously and it has fundamentally reshaped their approach to defense policy. Sweden, most notably, abandoned 200 years of neutrality, joined NATO, and began hardening its vulnerable points, such as the island of Gotland, which was demilitarized in 2005. Now Sweden has re-established a military presence on the island, brought back heavy weaponry, and is building up a defensive force. Why does an island in the middle of the Baltic sea need tanks, air defense systems and fighter jets on high alert?

Finland, known for its progressive policies, left the Ottawa treaty that banned anti-personnel mines. Why do you think they did that? Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania are building bunkers and digging defensive lines on their border with Russia. Latvian news reported just today that the government is considering dismantling rail tracks connecting to Russia to make them unavailable to invading force. Not to mention Poland's buying spree: Poland is acquiring hundreds of rocket artillery systems and a thousand tanks.

Are they all foolish children who don't know what they are doing? The looming threat of a Russian invasion is the sole reason Northern and Eastern Europe maintain militaries at all. There is no other threat in the region. Their militaries could be disbanded overnight if Russia were to vanish into thin air.

  > Cuba and Russia were never in a FORMAL military alliance or pact, since that would've provoked an immediate US invasion.
It doesn't change the fact that in practical terms, the military cooperation between Cuba and the USSR was much deeper than the relationship post–Cold War NATO members have had with the older members. The newer NATO members have received only a promise of assistance in the event of an invasion. Cuba received actual tanks, submarines and fighter jets.

Re: How a French judge was digitally cut off by the USA

#580
post #579
post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Putin's intense hostility toward NATO stems from the fact that NATO stands in the way of invading Europe .... > It is a problem for Putin only because he seeks to invade Europe; NATO stands in the way. These are the most outlandish sensationalist claims I've heard on this subject, that are basically bordering on primary school children discussions. There is absolutely 0% chance or even any rational thought or discu…

> There is absolutely 0% chance or even any rational thought or discussion that has happened by the leadership in Russia on this topic. All military and intelligence chiefs of the European nations that share a border with Russia disagree with that and warn that their societies must be prepared for an invasion within 2 to 5 years after the war in Ukraine ends. What you call "outlandish sensational claims" by "primary…

The military and intelligence chiefs of all these countries will of course act this way, the other side of the answer for this question is "No worries, Russia's not a threat, we'll keep everything as is". Imagine if a military general from Poland or Finland answers this, he'll lose his job immediately. If I am a Polish citizen and the Polish military general says this, I will absolutely make sure that guy gets fired, I will protest on the streets because of this. It would be ridiculous for a military general to say that all is fine, except if he's waging war of course :D

That answer, that Russia's not a threat, goes against the whole NATO and The West's side of the argument, which is that Ukraine needs financial and military support from the US and EU. What's happening in Ukraine is a proxy war, that has been cooking since 2008 if not even sooner. Why would the citizens of EU and US fund Ukraine if Russia's not an existential threat to us? Why would we care? We certainly care more about Palestinians, since we see all these massacred people on instagram and twitter, but none of our money goes there. Theres very little civilian videos coming out of Ukraine regarding war crimes. So we need explanations of why we are sending money to Ukraine, just as we needed those for Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria etc. Bush and the admin lied about WMDs and chemical weapons, which we found out 15 years after, and yet the taxpayer money was washed out of the voter base, into the military industrial complex.

The west is funding Ukraine so that they weaken Russia and do a regime-change that is favorable to The West, not because Russia is an existential threat. Russia can't even occupy Ukraine, a country with the lowest GDP per capita in europe, with one of the highest corruption indexes, let alone imagine occupying parts of Europe, say Poland, or the Baltics. It makes zero sense. Even if they did occupy, they wont be able to do anything? I dont get it? Europe doesnt have any major natural resources? What will they do with all of us? Enslave us and sell us to african tribal leaders? Steal the gold? I seriously dont understand.

The West needed a leader that would break that cold-war-ish pointless loop of blaming Russia for everything, since Russia is not a threat anymore, but China is. But any western leader claiming that would've actually caused a political suicide for him, his career would be over, because we the citizens have been fed this propaganda of Russian threat for decades, and its hard to forget it.

What happened with Trump was that he had enough mojo and approval to actually sell the public this argument of Russia not being a threat, and he successfully changed course by 180 degrees, completely disbanding all of the previous decades of foreign policy that was aimed against Russia, because it was useless. He hasnt done many good things since he took office, but just this one makes up for all of them and will go down in history for it.

P.S. just to add, I come from a country in the Balkans, but've lived for a long time in the UK, and now I live in the US. Even my homecountry started preparing for war against Russia :D, most probably because we were "advised" by our "allies" from the EU. The threat from Russia we have is NIL, NADA, not even that, its in the negative range, its embarrassing.

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